DaviSound TB-10 V.S/ Mackie CR 1604

Vox,

It's nice to hear an educated opinion about the Davisound.

My impression is that someone needs to have a serious talk with them about their web site. It's very catchy, and seems to grab a lot of people's attention, which is good.

But some of the claims they make are kind of "over-the-top." My first impression is that I don't want to do business with a company that claims that "every engineer that hears their preamp says it's the best preamp they've EVER heard."

That would be kind of like me saying that every woman who has ever had the pleasure to make love with me claims that chessrock is the best lover they've ever had. It's good for a chuckle or two, but most people would dismiss comments like that, and I may very well be a good lover. :)

I'll tell you what, though. I'm going to get a list of all the recording studios in America, and I will ask to speak with as many engineers as I can. I will ask every one of them if they've ever heard a Davisound. Which will probably be like one or two, not counting Davis himself. :) And if every one of them says, to a person "Best preamp I've ever heard," then I will personally verify their statement. They can even put at the end of that claim on their website "Verified by Chessrock @ homerecording.com."

If not, then I'm going to sick my lawyers after them and force them to print something more accurate. Then you'll be seeing new Davisound slogans:

Davisound: Our moms and immediate family all agree they are the best preamps they've ever heard.
 
Chess....

It would be hard for one to find some gear manufacturers that DO NOT say this in one way or the other and this applies to mics, pres, whathaveyou.

While i understand where you are coming from, i think you are being a bit unfair. That said, I was also leary but I spoke with the man a few times, emailed, whatever.....and was impressed by his convictions and true belief in his gear.

It was more of a gut feeling thing for me. I dont get those often but when I do, I'm usually right. Back when i started buying Michael Fuller's (Fulltone guitar effects) products, there wasnt much to be found for opinions and he makes some serious claims. I went for it because I felt it and liked his belief in his products.

Now economically, it's no more expensive to buy a TB-6 channel for channel than all the rest of the crap out there in our (my) price range. 4 channels of Davisound is cheaper than four channels of say...MP20.

I dont have mine yet, but when i do it'll either rule or be at least as good as anything else I can afford right now and since you only live once.......



heylow



PS.....funny thing is, if he charged more I'll bet more people would be into it.:D :rolleyes:
 
heylow said:
While i understand where you are coming from, i think you are being a bit unfair.
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Unfair? I'm just quoting their web site. I don't think it's unfair at all not to trust outrageous claims. I have the same level of distrust for Mackie when they stuff like this about their vlz pro: "matching or exceeding the performance of $500 to $2000-per-channel esoteric preamps" is one that comes to mind.

bbwwwaaaaahaaaa ! ! !

I don't think it's any more "unfair" to laugh at these statements than it is for me to laugh at Davisound for their delusions of grandeur. :) If Davisound is really that good and so many engineers like them, then they should be able to get plenty of endorsements from big-named audio engineers left and right. Hell, all they'd have to do is listen to them once, since their ratio of "engineers who listen" to "engineers who think they're the best pres they've ever heard" seems to be standing at a rather impressive 1:1.

But where are all these endorsements? Unless, of course, you want to count that dude from Stoney Creek, Ontario :) or some of these other places I've never heard of who do mostly demos for batmizfa polka bands.
 
CyanJaguar said:
littledog,

here you go

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=55155
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thread, Jag. I don't own any of those specific preamps, unless you include the ones in the Mackie 1604 VLZ that I only use for live sound.

But it appears that the couple of people who listened to your clips had some strong opinions about differences in how some of the pres sounded. In any case, I guarantee you would have some pretty strong opinions, one way or the other, if you were to audition some of my preamps.

I'll give you an example of how I tend to chose preamps for specific applications:

I was looking for something really clean and accurate to use with my extremely flat Earthworks QTC's. I borrowed a few different pre's, and recorded myself playing a set of rosewood claves that have such piercing transients, that in my room you can actually get a headache from playing them. When I played back the tests through my Genelec 1031a's, one track ended up giving me the same headache that the live playing did! So guess which preamp I ended up buying! (Hint: it wan't made by Mackie...)

In any event, your recordings are only as good as your weakest link. If you weren't hearing much difference in the preamps, perhaps it was some other part of the chain that was masking the differences.
 
chessrock said:


Damn, Little Dog. I had a feeling you weren't really such a "Little" Dog. :) How is it you get to work with such nice stuff? I might have to nominate you for "Gear Slut of the Year" if you're not careful. :) :) :)
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Yeah, I've been called worse! ;)

I record and perform music for a living, I don't have any kids, and my girlfriend is as much or more into gear as I am (no, she doesn't have an available sister!)

Plus I've been doing it a long time, so a lot of the basic gear has been long bought and paid for. That frees up funds for upgrading the weakest links. Or just buying cool stuff. Even with all my mic pres, I still wouldn't mind a VIPRE, a Great River Mercenary Edition, (or a Cranesong Flamingo or Spider, maybe some vintage Helios, a Neve 1073, etc. etc. etc.) And can you imagine all the wonderful compressors, mics (a few with Stephen Paul mods, of course), and then there's that Massive Passive...

OK, so I AM a gear slut! :(

By the way, Chess, I've got to agree with Heylow. Almost every company claims their stuff blows away the competition. Rarely is it unadulterated truth. Retailers aren't any better - you ever read some of the disinformation disguised as "reviews" in the Sweetwater mailings? You just can't get too upset or it will eat you alive. As long as you're aware it is mostly bullshit, you won't fall victim to it. And, by the way, the impartial magazine reviews can be just as inaccurate and misleading - which is a good reason never to buy anything based on a magazine review alone.
 
littledog said:
I guarantee you would have some pretty strong opinions, one way or the other, if you were to audition some of my preamps.
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Let's hear some clips, Littledog! :)

Just pick any two of your preamps (preferably two that you think sound way different) and play yourself fiddling around with something. I'd really like to hear something like that.
 
chessrock said:


Unfair? I'm just quoting their web site. I don't think it's unfair at all not to trust outrageous claims. I have the same level of distrust for Mackie when they stuff like this about their vlz pro: "matching or exceeding the performance of $500 to $2000-per-channel esoteric preamps" is one that comes to mind.

bbwwwaaaaahaaaa ! ! !

I don't think it's any more "unfair" to laugh at these statements than it is for me to laugh at Davisound for their delusions of grandeur. :) If Davisound is really that good and so many engineers like them, then they should be able to get plenty of endorsements from big-named audio engineers left and right. Hell, all they'd have to do is listen to them once, since their ratio of "engineers who listen" to "engineers who think they're the best pres they've ever heard" seems to be standing at a rather impressive 1:1.

But where are all these endorsements? Unless, of course, you want to count that dude from Stoney Creek, Ontario :) or some of these other places I've never heard of who do mostly demos for batmizfa polka bands.
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I agree, that the claim on there website is a bit over the top...... Then and again, the Ford's gonna say there truck is the strongest, yet Chevy says theres is "Like a Rock"... Behringer does a nice job of up-talking there (for the most part) shit gear....

It's called sales and advertisment tactics.... Nothing new.... The cool part is smart guys like you and me can decifer what "real life" is about and make a choice....

What I can say, and I only speak for me, is that Im glad I made the choice to buy one of there Pre-Amps....

Joe
"That dude from Stoney Creek"
 
What a STRANGE coincidence? Or perhaps Joe-incidence...

A guy named Joe with a band called VOXVENDOR just got a great evaluation of a song called "I Wish You'd Never Learn" in the new issue of RECORDING magazine (July '02).

Congratulations, man! Keep up the good work!

:cool:
 
Are You Serious?

Wow... ... Im gonna fall over..... I didn't know until now.. I will have to pick it up.... So it was favourable???

That is an older song and im no longer happy with the recording, and, I was praying they wouldn't do it, but wow, they did, and it was favourable...

Im all bubbly now....:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
Since you're too modest, I'll quote some excerpts for those who don't get the mag:

"...bright, catchy, inventive. Joe did it all."

"...wonderfully rich sound encompassing the entire sound spectrum. He sings, he plays, he records, and mixes like he knows what he's doing... it sounds gorgeous. You've done your idols proud — Mutt Lange and Tom Lorde-Alge. Keep at it and don't sell yourself short."

And that's just the highlights from a rave review without any "buts" in it!

(reviewer: Marty Peters)

So, how much did you have to pay this guy? :D
 
DANG!

Nice shit, Vox......I'm gonna have to go look at that one!

Hey VOX....I also wanted to ask you, since you A/B'd your pres, did you notice a difference in the top end between the Davisound and the Mackie? Meaning was it smoother? Nicer? Higher? Lower? Blue, Purple, From Outer Space? A movie star? Six Flags?


Nice eye, DOG! And I forgot to mention, looking at the list of pres: Somebody's sure livin' large for a littledog!:p



heylow
 
heylow said:


Nice eye, DOG! And I forgot to mention, looking at the list of pres: Somebody's sure livin' large for a littledog!:p
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It's weird how that worked out. I mean, I suppose I could have gotten into collecting different compressor flavors instead (I've only got 5 comps), or maybe something else.

But since I record direct to Pro Tools without going through a console, having a number of pres was critical, so I just ended up getting a lot of different flavors rather than a lot of the same. To be honest, it was more a matter of what showed up on e-bay cheap, or what i found at stores on sale more than a carefully planned buying strategy. Even when you have "enough" pres, the process of exploring options always leaves you with a few more that in the back of your mind you tell yourself you'll get if you see a really good deal.

Unfortunately for my debt balance, whenever I need something I tend to go for as much quality as possible (which means more than i can actually afford) so i don't regret the purchase a month or two down the road. And there always seems to be something to spend money on...
 
Just running out the door for a weekend's worth of gigs. It may be acouple of days before I can get back to you on this, but I'll give it a try at earliest opportunity.
 
littledog said:
Since you're too modest, I'll quote some excerpts for those who don't get the mag:

"...bright, catchy, inventive. Joe did it all."

"...wonderfully rich sound encompassing the entire sound spectrum. He sings, he plays, he records, and mixes like he knows what he's doing... it sounds gorgeous. You've done your idols proud — Mutt Lange and Tom Lorde-Alge. Keep at it and don't sell yourself short."

And that's just the highlights from a rave review without any "buts" in it!

(reviewer: Marty Peters)

So, how much did you have to pay this guy? :D
Click to expand...

You made my day by printing this....... Thanks... We don't get this magazine up here for another week, Our shelves are still displaying that one with Depeche Mode mentioned on the cover.........

Marty Peters is an awesome reviewer, he is not scared to rip shit apart, I am totally flattered.... I wish it was my newer stuff, but then and again, now I don't feel bad about the older stuff.....

Im, in a way, sort of like those guys mentioned.... in that, I obsess over ever detail in a mix, but back then I was still a little loose about it...

Oh, and I didn't pay with money... I just sent him a new Focusrite ISA 430 :D
 
heylow said:
DANG!

Nice shit, Vox......I'm gonna have to go look at that one!

Hey VOX....I also wanted to ask you, since you A/B'd your pres, did you notice a difference in the top end between the Davisound and the Mackie? Meaning was it smoother? Nicer? Higher? Lower? Blue, Purple, From Outer Space? A movie star? Six Flags?


Nice eye, DOG! And I forgot to mention, looking at the list of pres: Somebody's sure livin' large for a littledog!:p



heylow
Click to expand...

The Davisound was much Crisper (thats the only word I can think of)..... To make the Mackie as crisp as the DS, I have to add quite a chunk of high Eq.....

And the bass is fatter and more rounded sounding on the DS....


Thats my mileage..... it'd be interesting to hear what R.E. Says..
 
CyanJaguar said:
hey littledog,

Can you give us your list of mic preamps and tell us what you like each one on?
Click to expand...

ok... about 600 miles later...

I've got a Daking 52270, a Tube Tech MP1a, a Vintech 1272, a Demeter H series, the API 3124+, a DACS MicAmp, and an ATI 8MX2. I'll try and give a brief description of each.

Daking 52270: comes in it's own mini flight case with massive bright steel knobs, and power supply in flight case lid. I have a single channel (solid state), but flight case/power supply can have up to four units installed. Very cool. This is my only preamp witrh built in EQ, and the EQ is world class. Four bands of semi-parametric (each band has a sweep plus four frequency center settings) plus hi and low pass filters with three frequency settings apiece. The preamp itself (w/o EQ) would have to be described as bright, maybe even a bit aggressive or edgy. Good for rock vocals that need attitude. I've also used it on bari sax, acoustic bass, and other various horns. Gain is in two stages: twelve 5db increment switched settings (-5 to +60) with a infinitely variable pot for fine tuning volume increments. No metering. Phantom ALWAYS active. Has Pad, Polarity, Mute, and EQ bypass switches. Accepts line or mic inputs via 2 xlr's on back.

Vintech 1272: Two channels of repackaged Neve 1272 (solid state) components in a solid feeling two rack space configuration. Has input and output gain controls, polarity and phantom switches, and 4 stage LED output volume metering. Clean sounding, yet fat. I love it on electric bass and kick drum. Good headroom - worth a try on just about anything - have used it on horns, electric guitars, some vox. 2 front panel DI's are very useful.

DACS MicAMP: This is my straight wire + gain unit. Remarkably accurate uncoloured sound, I use it most often with my Earthworks QTC's on grand piano, classical guitar, and small percussion. Two channels, one rackspace - odd lavender color with red knobs! Metering is by a single variable coloured LED (green/yellow/red) on each channel. Switched macro gain settings with sweepable pot for fine-tuning. Polarity switches, but no pads. Unusual design in that there are two sets of inputs - one pair for phantom powered mics, and one pair for non phantom. Complicated technical explanation provided for reasoning behind this in manual. No DI's. Main weakness: limited headroom.

Tube Tech MP1a: 2 channels of incredible tube sound in a two rack space unit. Drawbacks: Only one switched gain per channel in 5 increment settings from 20-70. No fine tuning of gain. And no metering of any kind. Has 20 db pad, phantom, and variable 20Hz or 40Hz (or off) bass roll-off. 2 front panel DI's. Gets used a lot with my Lawson L47mp on lead vocals - especially when I am going for lush and gorgeous (jazz, ballads, etc.) This is what I think a tube pre should sound like - clean, not muddy - but adding just a hint of silkiness and warmth. Sounds killer on acoustic bass and tenor sax. If I had a half dozen more, I might just use it on everything.

API 3124+: 4 channels of API 312's in a one rack space unit with four DI's on front. One pot for volume, switches for polarity, phantom, pad, and mic/line on each channel. Excellent 7 segment (3 color) LED output metering on each channel. Headroom, headroom, headroom! The beauty and uniqueness of the API's is that if you overdrive them, they often sound even better! I use them a lot on "hot" sources: horns, electric guitar amp, drum overheads, toms, sometimes kick and snare if I'm using the 1272 for something else. Is not at all a "sparkly" preamp - seems to bring out lows and mids more than highs, and as a result is not usually among my first choices for vocals.

Demeter H series: a one rack space 2 channel tube/solid state hybrid. One of my earliest preamp purchases - it does not have the price or pedigree of some of the other pres, but it still sounds damn good. Output metering and input overload lED. Input gain and output trim, pad, polarity, low cut, and phantom switches. Back when I was using ADATs and console pramps, the Demeter was my go to preamp for vocals for a couple of years. Main drawback compared to it's more expensive cousins: less headroom.

ATI 8MX2: a remarkable unit in that it has 8 fine sounding solid state preamps which can be internally mixed down to a stereo output if desired (including panning on each pre; although there is still the option to use individual outputs) This makes it very useful for remote recordings or other situations where portablilty is important. ATI is part of the same company that makes Paragon consoles (highly regarded live boards), and the pres are borrowed from the Paragon design. I've run entire drum kits through the 8 pres with excellent results. I've also used it to stack gospel vocal ensembles - recording with 8 mics but printing just the 2 buss mix on each pass.

Wow! I'm tired! Hope this is what you were looking for...
 
Dude,

you inspire me to become totally addicted to ramen noodles... I mean gear. I would love to have even half the pres you own

Did I hear you mention a lawson l47? Dude, you are a beast

Funk on!
 
To anyone who actually has the endurance to read my preamp descriptions, I was pretty tired when I wrote it, and couldn't think of the word "stepped" for pots that adjust levels in specific fixed intervals. I think I used the word "switched" a couple of times instead, and now it is too late to edit the message - so please insert "stepped" for "switched" on your own. Thanks!
 
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