Dav Bg-1

[SonicAlbert]

We are slipping away again from what's important: the BG-1 sounds fantastic! Everything else is completely aside the point. Whatever is in it is what needs to be in it in order for it to sound good. I can't explain how it sounds so big and deep, but it does. Whatever parts are inside are well chosen, however they are put together is well done.

Again, you have to leave room for surprises, for the unexpected. You are looking at this piece of gear as a collection of parts (of which you are only sure of one part by the way!), and allowing for nothing more what you think it should sound like based upon that one part. I can assure that this is a very superior sounding preamp.

With all due respect, and I do have respect for you chessrock, the detractors of the BG-1 in this thread have *never heard* a BG-1.

But back to the actual original discussion, and that is what preamp antispatula should buy for his studio. I'm curious if he's made a decision yet, or what his current list of top prospects is. I'm still thinking Neve Portico for him, but am just curious where he's at with his search right now.

 

[undergroundtoon]

But back to the actual original discussion, and that is what preamp antispatula should buy for his studio. I'm curious if he's made a decision yet.

UMmmm......... I think he left a few days ago. Shortly after you and chess started playing sword fight in the restrooms.

 

[Big Kenny]

and by this time I think he's pro spatula

 

[SonicAlbert]

UMmmm......... I think he left a few days ago. Shortly after you and chess started playing sword fight in the restrooms.

Yeah, I guess I wouldn't blame him.

It just bugs me when people diss gear that they haven't seen, heard or touched. Now we are supposed to be buying gear based on what chips are inside?

 

[sdelsolray]

Well, in order to actually open one up and get a good view of it's innards, one would suppose I would have to actually own one.

... which, frankly, I have zero interest in. I know just enough about it to conclude that it isn't something I would ever care to purchase.

If I somehow found out it was point-to-point wired and employed giant film caps the size of coke cans, everything socketed, gold-plated, and with fine Jensen and Lundhal transformers ; no surface-mount components ... I might think otherwise. But somehow, I have serious doubts about that. In it's current state, it sounds like there wouldn't be much difference between it and the DIY jobs that some of the homerec'ers are talking about in this thread.

You seem to think that all of this intimate knowlege is very important, so I am assuming you to be an expert on this unit in question (?) ... and I look forward to your detailed and thorough breakdown of it's components and design theory so that you can set me straight once and for all, no?

.

That's a pretty tiring trick - turn the issue over and blame the messenger. Did you learn that from Rush Limbaugh?

I have yet to try the BG-1. I've heard several samples and comparisons (over at Gearslutz and Lynn Fuston's forum), but I claim no special knowledge about the unit. In some of those examples/comparisons, the BG-1 was A/B'd against a Pendulm Audio MDP-1a, a pre I am very familiar with because I've owned one for 5 years (and yes, I've opened the hood to look inside - point to point, etc., very nice). I also own and use John Hardy M-2 and Pendulum SPS-1 preamps. From the samples I heard (which must be taken with a large grain of salt), I liked the BG-1 and look forward to trying one when I get a chance.

My reason for posting was to call out your BS, which you have (now) truthfully acknowledged and demonstrated - you have no personal experience with either (i) the sound of the unit or (ii) the schematics/build of the unit. Thus, you comments about it are worthless. That's all I was doing, and it has been done.

Thanks for being honest about your actual experience with and knowlege about the DAV BG-1.

 

[chessrock]

I'm going to re-quote myself, because I think it bears repeating:

If all you care about is the sound, and you like that sound, then there's really no point, on your end, in continuing this discussion. It sounds good ... you like it ... congratulations.

.... if you don't find this discussion interesting or valuable, then you're welcome to jump out of it at any time.

.

 

[Big Kenny]

It's just that I find it hard to justify the price tag when one considers the components and layout.

And if you were to compare it to a Sytek, forget it. It's not even a comparison. Sytek is quite simply a better design using better components with a more thoughtful layout and similarly robust power supply, and it happens to run about 1/2 the cost of the DAV (DAV has a 4-channel version that I believe runs $1,400 whereas Sytek generally runs in the $700 range). And if you've compared the two, and you really hear some sort of difference, then I'm sorry but you're just splitting hairs.

The Rane unit, I will concede doesn't have near as robust of a power supply ... but most other factors being similar, it would represent a much higher-value option with very similar sound qualities and technical specs for at least a 100 bucks less per channel.



.

Here's the quote that got it started
1- you don't know the components or layout
2- can't compare what you don't know

 

[jonnyc]

That's a pretty tiring trick - turn the issue over and blame the messenger. Did you learn that from Rush Limbaugh?

I have yet to try the BG-1. I've heard several samples and comparisons (over at Gearslutz and Lynn Fuston's forum), but I claim no special knowledge about the unit. In some of those examples/comparisons, the BG-1 was A/B'd against a Pendulm Audio MDP-1a, a pre I am very familiar with because I've owned one for 5 years (and yes, I've opened the hood to look inside - point to point, etc., very nice). I also own and use John Hardy M-2 and Pendulum SPS-1 preamps. From the samples I heard (which must be taken with a large grain of salt), I liked the BG-1 and look forward to trying one when I get a chance.

My reason for posting was to call out your BS, which you have (now) truthfully acknowledged and demonstrated - you have no personal experience with either (i) the sound of the unit or (ii) the schematics/build of the unit. Thus, you comments about it are worthless. That's all I was doing, and it has been done.

Thanks for being honest about your actual experience with and knowlege about the DAV BG-1.

You are aware that owning something isn't a requirement for knowing what components are used to build it, right? Sure, owning it will help determine how it sounds but some simple googling could probably yield some schematics on the unit.

 

[chessrock]

Here's the quote that got it started
1- you don't know the components or layout

I know it's basically an INA217 followed by an OP-275 opamp. I know schematics / data sheets for an ina-based mic pre are available from BurrBrown and Analog devices. I know it's not socketed and that it uses electrolytic caps.

And although I haven't personally cracked one open, I know at least a few who have, including Jim Williams (Audio Upgrades), and these people have remarked that it is no more advanced than the schematics you can dowload off the net (and make yourself for $20 or so).

And these are people who I generally tend to trust on these matters. And based on what they have said, and what I have come to learn myself about mic pres and how they work ... again, I know enough to conclude that I don't care to purchase one. Thankyou.

.

 

[Big Kenny]

Happy New Year, You're welcome.

 

[chessrock]

You too, Big K.

Stay outa' trouble.

.

 

[cannabis]

I know it's basically an INA217 followed by an OP-275 opamp. I know schematics / data sheets for an ina-based mic pre are available from BurrBrown and Analog devices. I know it's not socketed and that it uses electrolytic caps.

And although I haven't personally cracked one open, I know at least a few who have, including Jim Williams (Audio Upgrades), and these people have remarked that it is no more advanced than the schematics you can dowload off the net (and make yourself for $20 or so).

And these are people who I generally tend to trust on these matters. And based on what they have said, and what I have come to learn myself about mic pres and how they work ... again, I know enough to conclude that I don't care to purchase one. Thankyou.

.

so in other words

you don't know shit about it

(or about electronics)

you've picked up some buzzwords

(burr browns, sockets, electrolytic, class a)

you've heard some second hand information

(not about the sound, but about the parts list)

and it doesn't matter how it sounds -

it just isn't worth the price


my bs detector is hitting 120 db

...But if you like the DAV, and it does the job and it's worth it for you, then cool ... I really think that's great.

good comment

and that's where you should have left it

2.There's one button for phantom power. I'm going to use a condenser and a dynamic when recording stuff like piano and guitar. Phantom power can't hurt something like a 57 can it?

no problem

all recording mics are designed to work with phantom power

whether they need it or not

(though there may be issues

with improperly wired mic cables)

 

[SonicAlbert]

Regarding Jim Williams: I have a tremendous amount of respect for him, so much so that I have given him my hard earned money to mod a couple things for me. And I will almost certainly in the future have him mod more gear for me.

However, he has a sound in mind that he is going for. But it's not the only sound I want, or the only sound I consider to be a good sound. He is making a designer's choice regarding the sound he is building into his units. He makes preamps as well, it should be noted. So while his comments no doubt have validity coming from his perspective, that doesn't mean they are then beginning and end of whether a unit is well designed.

I should also mention that when Jim modded my Urei 546 eq, there was already a mod done on it by the previous owner. Jim checked the unit with the wire from the mod in place, and the wire removed, just to see if made any difference to the sound. Besides the fact that I loved his attention to detail, that tells me that even the most minor internal configuration alterations can affect the sound. Another reason why I don't think you can look at a few op amps and understand the whole story of how a unit sounds.

Good designers of audio gear take great pains in deciding where the parts are placed and how they are connected to each other. I do believe it is possible to hit a sweet spot with a layout. That doesn't mean that the layout has to be super complicated or impressive to other designers, it simply has to be "just right". And the results show up in the sound.

I have no explanation why the BG-1 sounds so good at such an affordable price, it just does. All these efforts to discredit it (for whatever reason that I can't figure out) still never touch the fact that it just sounds really, really good.

 

[MOFO Pro]

Valid aurguments from both Sonic and Chess...

If it sounds as good as units twice it's cost then it's a great buy...

If it's built with $20 worth of parts and sells for 30 time that... doesn't sound that great...

but it does sound great... really

 

[jonnyc]

so in other words

you don't know shit about it

(or about electronics)

you've picked up some buzzwords

(burr browns, sockets, electrolytic, class a)

you've heard some second hand information

(not about the sound, but about the parts list)

and it doesn't matter how it sounds -

it just isn't worth the price


my bs detector is hitting 120 db



good comment

Wow you don't sound like an asshole at all. You are aware that some simple googling can lead you to discover most of the components used to build this piece right? So owning it really isn't needed to know how and with what it's built. Chess is a very knowledgable person and wouldn't make an arguement if he didn't feel strongly about it. My asshole detector is hitting 120db.

 

[Big Kenny]

Wow you don't sound like an asshole at all. You are aware that some simple googling can lead you to discover most of the components used to build this piece right? So owning it really isn't needed to know how and with what it's built. Chess is a very knowledgable person and wouldn't make an arguement if he didn't feel strongly about it. My asshole detector is hitting 120db.

I think that you got some cheap parts in your detector......... I can build ya one a lot cheaper and it will work a lot better.

 

[jonnyc]

I think that you got some cheap parts in your detector......... I can build ya one a lot cheaper and it will work a lot better.

Yeah it's chinese, a Behringer knock off. Could use a new opamp or maybe even a flux capacitor.

 

[cannabis]

Wow you don't sound like an asshole at all. You are aware that some simple googling can lead you to discover most of the components used to build this piece right? So owning it really isn't needed to know how and with what it's built. Chess is a very knowledgable person and wouldn't make an arguement if he didn't feel strongly about it. My asshole detector is hitting 120db.

i'm an asshole

and chestnuts is a bullshitter

that's not hard to figure out


most of the info that's bandied about here is vicarious

and you can google 'till the cows come home

and you still won't know how equipment sounds

until you try it yourself

 

[jonnyc]

i'm an asshole

and chestnuts is a bullshitter

that's not hard to figure out


most of the info that's bandied about here is vicarious

and you can google 'till the cows come home

and you still won't know how equipment sounds

until you try it yourself

Never debated the part about the sound, that's fairly obvious. I'd have to try one before I discounted it. My point was that you shouldn't assume that someone doesn't know something, he doesn't have to own one to know what parts were used on it.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Thanks for the pic MOFO Pro. I really don't have the guts to take mine apart!

What's under the mezzanine board? It looks to me like some of the unit is point to point wiring and other parts are circuit board connections. Probably just to get from the mezzanine board down to the main board. Glad he didn't use molex connectors!