Dark Sun Rising - lyrics for critique.

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rayc

rayc

retroreprobate
Below is a set of lyrics that resulted from a TV program I watched. A story in which serious wrong was done to individuals but to which "the law" could not respond effectively. Someone, discretely, took a different law into their own hands. This wasn't a western or a shoot 'em up but an semi urban situation. I wrote down what follows. Very little tweaking has been done. I'll probably come back to this later & fiddle about but I'm surprisingly uncomfortable with the concept and the fact that I've written it.
Recently I may have appeared a little abrupt in my criticism of the lyrics of others so thought it fair that I put my most recent effort up for comment.
Have at it!

Dark Sun Rising

The good forsaken,
Their faith is shaken,
The meek molested
And put away,
The Dark Sun Rising,
For an accounting,
Too late the cure,
For blood flows this day.

For those unable,
Take heart in fable,
Of those who can and
Of those who will
Do right through wrong means,
Life force intervenes,
For someone must and
Dark blood they will spill.

Not restitution,
Nor retribution,
But simple balance,
Resets the scale.
Sometimes two wrongs can,
Redress the wronged man.
Not turn the clock back,
But fates can dovetail.

Out from the shadows,
As waxing moon grows,
The silent foot falls
Upon the path
Some forms of justice
Are antithesis
Absorbing life in
The dark aftermath

The dark sun rising
Feint heart reviving
The pain of life is
Akin to death
It casts a shadow
Straight as an arrow
Marks the target
And steals, from it, breath

Dark Sun is Rising
Unappetising
So few take up its
Burden of woe
No recognition
Just life’s contrition
For those who can and
For those who know
cochrane
 
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Ray,

You put a lot of emotion in the words. You did a good job of keeping the perspective third person so that the listener doesn't need to shift the mental image. I notice that being a problem in a lot of songs these days.

The only thing I can see is that there are few words that would be hard to get across in a vocal. A lot of of the songwriting seminars I have attended over the years have advised that simple words work better when you try to maintain the flow of the lyrics. Some words that I noticed that, when read make perfect sense, but when used as lyrics may not be clear are: redress, contrition, and antithesis. If you could come up with some simpler words that flow I feel that it would make the song stronger from a listener's perspective.

Just my humble $0.02 YMMV.

SM
 
SM,
Thanks for the response. I'm aware of the enunciation/diction/pronounciation problems and decided not to amend them as I don't think this lyric will end up anywhere however, if I end up with it in a song I'll take reference from the singer about what they can/cannot work with and amend from there.
As mentioned, I did very little to the lyrics after the almost automatic writing process so I have plenty of opportunity/scope for amendments.
Unfortunately I'm as wordy in life as I am on paper/screen.
 
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Wow,quite a few reads but only one response.
Seriously, this lyric has caused me some grief because of it's theme. It's not a theme I agree with but I noted the thing & wrote an observation - perhaps an observation that reads as biased towards the redresser of wrongs which may be why I'm uncomfortable with it.
Are there any thoughts on the theme, the writing, the vibe, the potential for it to be co opted by The Wiggles?
 
Shimone,
if it is, as you suggest, nascent, what needs to be done to bring it to full flower?
 
rayc - these lyrics look good to me. I hummed along to them with an improvised melody as I read because I think it's difficult to assess lyrics in isolation and I think it all scans well except the end of the second verse where the syllables tumble into one another a bit. I'd look to revisit the final couplet if it were my song.

Have to say, I disagree with Sonic Misfit on the language point. I think you get far more interesting lyrics when you put together unusual combinations of words, and more interesting textures when you use more 'complex' words. I think there's enough lyrics in the world along the phone/alone, love/above route already, so I'd say embrace the unusual lyricism.

I hope you do eventually put it to music - with no chorus and a simple repitition of the pattern throughout you could probably make a really interesting piece with a simple, repeating melody and the interest coming from a constantly building intensity in the instrumentation. I hear something in the Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds vein.
 
Just read through this a few times Ray. Mainly looking at timing and meter. The only thing that popped up was line 4 seems a bit short of syllables in verse 1. The rest is good - it is colorful and descriptive. Lots of good imagery !!
 
Nice set of lines Ray, No nits from me as such, though I have to say I was wanting to reach a verse which had a focused personification/subject/character which is tangible. My reasoning, a someone as opposed to the more general approach which is applied throughout, as I think that might well heighten the impact of the subject and word choices, helping a listener to find greater empathy with the song. The four and five syllable variation towards the end of some verses is way easier to reconcile when the whole piece provides the context, though your phrasing does not appear accidental, so my gut feeling is that this will fly well. Some very appealing subtle rhyming employed too.

regards

Tim
 
Thanks for your generous comments fellows.
Rob,
Thanks mate. that's the kind of info I've been after. I'll look at the line in question intervene to spill. Sonics for this = I've no idea. Having seen Nick Cave in The Booys Next Door, The Birthday Party, Man or Myth and with the Badseeds I can get a grip on you idea. Something from the Good Son album'd be nice.
Ido,
That short line is part of the pattern I tried to set up: 4 is short 8 lengthens to compensate. I'll have a fiddle with it & see if I can settle it into something more readily sung.
Phrasemaker,
As the lines dribbled out I was consciously trying to avoid putting myself in them due to my relaionship with the topic. I was deliberatly dispassionate/writing commentary and not trying to persuade. I will reread to see if my position has changed/mellowed or is more amenable to stepping out of my own skin. It's a dodgy topic I know.
 
Ray, I was thinking more along the lines of an anonymous subject/person as it could be subtle while intimating the individual which could be grasped at through the listener's interpretation. I appreciate what you are saying about putting yourself in, and respect that you might not want to appear to be portraying another individual's perspective. I think that attributing certain parts of lyrics in a way that some areas have ownership is a flexible tool which can make statements more tangible, I also respect the authors discretion :-)

all the best

Tim
 
rayc said:
Below is a set of lyrics that resulted from a TV program I watched. A story in which serious wrong was done to individuals but to which "the law" could not respond effectively. Someone, discretely, took a different law into their own hands. This wasn't a western or a shoot 'em up but an semi urban situation. I wrote down what follows. Very little tweaking has been done. I'll probably come back to this later & fiddle about but I'm surprisingly uncomfortable with the concept and the fact that I've written it.
I'm two months late to the dance, but better late than never! :) Your description of watching the movie and then writing a song, Ray, is similar to what I do when I experience a writer's block. I can watch certain types of scenes in movies and a song immediately begins forming for me. It won't always be a particularly good song, but the it kills the writer's block. Never fails. :)

rayc said:
Recently I may have appeared a little abrupt in my criticism of the lyrics of others so thought it fair that I put my most recent effort up for comment.
Have at it!
Click to expand...

I think it's a good thing to have someone criticize. I'd rather hear the truth here in the forum from fellow writers than to begin playing crap for friends and thinking it's not too bad when it actually is! I'd much rather be told here, "it's sucks!" LOL! Seriously! :)

rayc said:
Dark Sun Rising

The good forsaken,
Their faith is shaken,
The meek molested
And put away,
The Dark Sun Rising,
For an accounting,
Too late the cure,
For blood flows this day.

For those unable,
Take heart in fable,
Of those who can and
Of those who will
Do right through wrong means,
Life force intervenes,
For someone must and
Dark blood they will spill.

Not restitution,
Nor retribution,
But simple balance,
Resets the scale.
Sometimes two wrongs can,
Redress the wronged man.
Not turn the clock back,
But fates can dovetail.

Out from the shadows,
As waxing moon grows,
The silent foot falls
Upon the path
Some forms of justice
Are antithesis
Absorbing life in
The dark aftermath
The dark sun rising
Feint heart reviving
The pain of life is
Akin to death
It casts a shadow
Straight as an arrow
Marks the target
And steals, from it, breath

Dark Sun is Rising
Unappetising
So few take up its
Burden of woe
No recognition
Just life’s contrition
For those who can and
For those who know cochrane
Click to expand...

The rythm and meter (that's metre to you!) seem fine to me. I could easily hear the Johnny Cash singing this one to an acoustic guitar and bar piano. Put it to music, Ray. The lyrics work! :)

Cheers,
Joseph
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
rayc said:
Have at it!

Dark Sun Rising

The good forsaken,
Their faith is shaken,
The meek molested
And put away,
The Dark Sun Rising,
For an accounting,
Too late the cure,
For blood flows this day.

For those unable,
Take heart in fable,
Of those who can and
Of those who will
Do right through wrong means,
Life force intervenes,
For someone must and
Dark blood they will spill.

Not restitution,
Nor retribution,
But simple balance,
Resets the scale.
Sometimes two wrongs can,
Redress the wronged man.
Not turn the clock back,
But fates can dovetail.

Out from the shadows,
As waxing moon grows,
The silent foot falls
Upon the path
Some forms of justice
Are antithesis
Absorbing life in
The dark aftermath

The dark sun rising
Feint heart reviving
The pain of life is
Akin to death
It casts a shadow
Straight as an arrow
Marks the target
And steals, from it, breath

Dark Sun is Rising
Unappetising
So few take up its
Burden of woe
No recognition
Just life’s contrition
For those who can and
For those who know
cochrane
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. Of course like everyone always says in this forum, it's tough to critique it without hearing the music.

Honestly, it seems a little stiff. I find in my favorite lyrics, it doesn't seem like the lyricist is trying too hard, though I know many work to convey that illusion. Really, rock/pop (anything under 10 minutes long with lyrics) is not a format that can sustain too much intellectualism... and I feel the most effective lyric writing deals directly with emotion, rather than describing and compartmentalizing it... You yourself mentioned trying not to put yourself in them too much.... But putting someone in them might heighten the drama a little. Reading the lyrics here, the narrator seems far removed from both victimhood and vigilantism and there's little believability to "immerse" the listener. Words like "antithesis" and phrases like "life's contrition"...."the pain of life is akin to death".... you might want to take it easy with that stuff as it heightens the already somewhat haughty atmosphere you're presenting. Also, it just seems really linear.... like it's been thought out that it has to move in one particular direction and every line has to relate in some way to the main theme. Writing a nonsense song with words that just sound cool together is the opposite extreme but can be a helpful exercise in lowering the burden that you seem to be placing on just about every line here.

Anyways, that's my constructive crit. Good luck with it. :)
 
Joseph,
Thanks for the comments; you're not too late for this dance as I've only taken athe first few steps & then came to a halt - partly because the music to accompany it has ground to a halt also. I'll put som thoujht into the acoustic guitar idea. Thanks mate.
Flat Feet,
I don't disagree with anything you've written: the distance in the lyric reflects the same in the TV prog I saw. It didn't comment, didn't round out the victim more that the perpetrator nor the one who took revenge. It was a dispassionate observation that attempted not to take sides. I tried to do similarly.
I was also beiing scrupulously careful not to enter the debate or seem to lean one way or the other.
With regard to the language I used: I was set up by the 1st verse and felt obliged to follow it as I liked the sound of the words. Having said that, I think intervene is the clumsiest use of a word in the piece. It doesn't read easily let alone be sung. I'm aware that there are a few/several other moments that are in a similar situation. As I said previously; if/when the lyric is sung I'll work with the singer to amend it to suit the delivery.
I can't write decent emotional or passionate lyrics. I've tried unsuccessfully over the years to do so but without luck.
If you have a look/listen to my tracks on Soundclick, TripleJ Unearthed, my blog or Reverbnation you'll find that the lyrics I've written on my own, (probably the 9 most recent ones), aren't the sort that connect emotionally - some connect sonically as they "sound" interesting others tell a story while yet others are more descriptive.
Thanks for the comments. I will keep them in mind when I revisit it after setting up some music & a singer. More to the point I'll think of them when next i write something.
 
rayc said:
Flat Feet,
I don't disagree with anything you've written: the distance in the lyric reflects the same in the TV prog I saw. It didn't comment, didn't round out the victim more that the perpetrator nor the one who took revenge. It was a dispassionate observation that attempted not to take sides. I tried to do similarly.
I was also beiing scrupulously careful not to enter the debate or seem to lean one way or the other.
With regard to the language I used: I was set up by the 1st verse and felt obliged to follow it as I liked the sound of the words. Having said that, I think intervene is the clumsiest use of a word in the piece. It doesn't read easily let alone be sung. I'm aware that there are a few/several other moments that are in a similar situation. As I said previously; if/when the lyric is sung I'll work with the singer to amend it to suit the delivery.
I can't write decent emotional or passionate lyrics. I've tried unsuccessfully over the years to do so but without luck.
If you have a look/listen to my tracks on Soundclick, TripleJ Unearthed, my blog or Reverbnation you'll find that the lyrics I've written on my own, (probably the 9 most recent ones), aren't the sort that connect emotionally - some connect sonically as they "sound" interesting others tell a story while yet others are more descriptive.
Click to expand...

Hey rayc, of course I've heard other stuff of yours.... you have one, "The Master" (I think) on which I noticed some particularly cool sounding words.

I always think a big place where people choke with lyrics is feeling that they have to either sing about what they know, or completely detach. And lyric writing, for some reason, causes songwriters to really examine their place in music- like they have to say something personal or unique....and that same songwriter will feel no such obligation with some wanky blues guitar solo taking a crap right in the middle of their song.
Writing lyrics first is a prickly road that I'm not sure I personally would want to go down. I know it's been done that way plenty of times with different degrees of success, but I've always been of the opinion that the song suffers and a songwriter can't continue down that road for too long without all their stuff starting to sound the same. I feel the best song lyrics are made of words that have a musical quality to them....plenty of alliteration, interior and slant rhyme, but most importantly- the phonetics of the words being sung "sound like" the music going on underneath them...and to get that effect you kind of have to tailor the words to the music after it's written. With my own stuff the vocal melody frequently comes first, the rest of the arrangement follows really fast, but the actual lyrics are absolutely last.
 
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Flat_Feet
Here's an example of why I remain abstracted;: I seem to caste myself or the protaganost as victim when I write in a more direct manner.
Sad beer poetry really.
To be fair to myself I did write this lyric at 18 year but I continue to write in a simialr way when I move from the abstract here's the semi finsihed song to make it easier to swallow.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/26003421/alice 23 08 12 .wav
ALICE
Alice says the clouds are coming down
They will wash the tears from your eyes
But what will you do when I am gone?
And the clouds are coming down
What will you do when it’s all gone
When your supply is finished?
What went wrong?
Alice says the clouds are coming down again
Alice says the clouds are coming down again
A figure in the rain
A life alone
Thoughts like rain
Fall on the ground
Alice says the clouds are coming down again
Alice says the clouds are coming down
I can’t find a light
To illuminate your life
Alice says the clouds are coming down.
One ruined picture on the mantelpiece
Cracked in glass and cracked in brain
Splinters on the floor all that remain
Alice says the clouds are coming down again
Walking on a misty night
And stepping in my tears
Alice says the clouds are coming down
Waking on a moonless night
And sleeping with my tears
Thoughts of you are painful
Bringing forth the rain of years
The moon a globe reflecting light
The light of life and love
Alice says the clouds are coming down
Eclipsed the moon no longer shines
But I resist the cold caress
Alice says the world is coming down
Alice says the world is coming down

& here's one from only a couple of years ago - again similar problem though I'm trying to speak from a dif perspective the same problems remain...

Eyes Wired Open
You’re wearing yesterday’s raincoat
Safe from tomorrow’s rain
Impatient at today’s departure
Uncertainty goes against the grain
Dreams filled with euphemistic ghosts
Keeping company with your fears
Revisiting the separation
As the memories draw tears

Build a wall of mixed illusions
Thatch a roof with your decay
Make a mask of grand delusion
When there’s nothing left to say
You’ve nothing more to say.


Whisper softly to the darkness
And feel in lightly holding on
Taking comfort from the echo
Well, at least until it’s gone.

Build a wall of mixed illusions
Filling dreams with your decay
Make a mask of grand delusion
All the things we could not say
I reject them every day

Every morning there’s the promise
Every evening there’s the lack
Every moment there’s the prospect
That you won’t be coming back

Build a life of mixed illusions
Sent the world with your decay
Make a mask of grand delusion
When there’s nothing left to say
Just hope it will go away

Eyes wired open you still can’t see,
What was, what is & what will be.
Close your eyes & look around,
You won’t know what’s lost until it’s found

You’re wearing yesterday’s raincoat
Safe from tomorrow’s rain
Impatient at today’s departure
Uncertainty goes against the grain

Build a wall of mixed illusions
Thatch a roof with your decay
Make a mask of grand delusion
When there’s nothing left to say
The world just won’t go away.

Whilst attempting to be about someone else it becomes, at least in part, about me & none the better for it.
 
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