D160 H/disc recorder

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ausrock

ausrock

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Skippy, hope ya see this.

Do you use an AD-DA converter cause we are have problems and maybe you may know the answers.

Peace.........ChrisO
 
External converters? No, I just use the internal 8in-16out setup in my 1624. But I know how external converters *should* work: I fly tracks in and out digitally all the time, and I may indeed choose to abandon the internal converters and go with a bunch of external RME converters sooner or later. Shoot, I might actually retire my current 1624 to location use, and get a separate converterless 1624 (or maybe a 2424) for my fixed base operation here. Whatever: I reserve the right to change my mind, and often. That's the joy of being a nerd.

Having said that: what sort of problems are you having, exactly, and how can I help? What's up with your converters?
 
Hiya Skippy,

OK, I have quoted part of an email I sent to Fostex and in their way they have managed to misinterpret it, so while I am re-composing it for Japanese logic I thought I'd throw it at you as well..........hehehe. I wont add any more to it until you have had time to digest this.

If you cant grasp what I am sayin just yell.

Peace..................

Quote from email to Fostex:

"I have a Fostex D160 v2 and a Fostex VC8 A/D converter which is supposed to allow us to record up to 16 analogue tracks at one time. To the problem……………when recording more than 8 tracks, instead of any tracks above trk 9 (inclusive) having data from the VC8, they are doubling the analogue signal from trks 1-8……….that is, trk 1 is also on trk 9, trk 2 is also on trk 10, etc, etc…..and there is no sign of the input through the VC8.



I have it set up as follows;

Console tape outs 1-8 to D160 analogue in.

Console tape outs 9-16 to VC8 inputs.

VC8 digital out to D160 data inputs 9-16.

VC8 switches set as follows…..Word In Switch OFF

Clock Selector INT(44.1)

Anologue Input 1-8

Digital Mode ADAT



I have followed any instructions in both the D160 and VC8 manuals that I thought relevant, but to date have not been able to solve this problem. Unfortunately the authors of these manuals seem to be of the belief that 1; EVERYONE is fluent in digital technology these days and 2; that any thought of giving comprehensive coverage to linking the analogue and digital domains really isn’t on their agenda."

End of quote.
 
That's curious: the manual for my D1624 states explicitly that it _ought_ to work.

"If ADAT signals are input to the D1624, tracks not assigned to the digital input are automatically assigned to the analog input."

Sounds like that's what you're doing, though, and that it isn't working properly. Perhaps there's a difference in the D160's hardware that makes this not work right, or perhaps there's a trick to try. You tried running the external converter up to 9-16 (which is certainly the obvious place to run it), and you still got the analog ins even though you'd set 9-16 for digital in. Try this: run the digital ins to 1-8 instead, and set the box for digital in on 1-8. You'll still get the analog ins on 9-16 for free. Maybe that will work (even though what you're trying _should_ work, from all I can glean).

Sometimes reverse psychology works better when trying to interpret Japanese documentation. It's worth a shot, anyway...

One other thing, which you've probably already tried: it may be that, if the D160 can't get good sync to the ADAT port, it silently mutes the digital inpout and simply allows the default routing of the internal converter outputs to win. In other words, you may be doing it exactly right, but clocking issues are making the wrong thing happen. How is your clocking set up? Is the D160 the master (Operating Clock set to "Int"), and the converter slaved to its word clock out? If so, you *should* be able to use ADAT/sync mode and get clean data in, and a solid lock by default. ADAT/async mode is likely to give less desirable results. That'd be the next thing I'd try, after trying the digital-to-1-8 swap. I've never been able to get the thing to work properly when using it as anything onther than the system clock master.

Sorry this isn't much help, but I never mix modes: either I'm using 8 channels of analog in, or 16 channels of ADAT I/O. I've never tried to do what you are doing, but all indications are that it should work: it explicitly says that it will in the manual. However, clocking issues can screw up _anything_, and the manual is pretty silent on debug techniques.
 
Ahh! I just reread your message, and realized that I'd misread it the first time. This is *definitely* a clocking/mute issue: the VC8 isn't being slaved to your D160's word clock, and it has to be. These recorders don't work very well at all when trying to slave to an external clock.

Set up the D160 to use its internal operating clock, and set the digital input to be ADAT/sync. Then, set up the VC8 to use word clock in instead of its internal clock (making it the slave device to the D160's master), and connect the D160's word clock out to the VC8's word clock in with a BNC-BNC cable. You ought to get lock and proper operation right away.

I'll bet a beer that that will solve it, anyway. Let me know if that helps!
 
Skippy,
It may be a couple of days before my son and I get time to "attack" the D160 again. But keep watchin this space.

I've spent the last week building the "desk" to take our console and what rack gear we have at the moment, and it will be a few days before I'm finished. Your posts in the "Studio Cabling" thread were bloody wonderful and to top this week off I was given 40mtrs of 20 channel multicore to use for wiring. I think I will be makin my own patchbays as there is nothing decent available at a sensible price.

OK, mate, I'll leave it at that and will post here as soon as we have tried out your idea.......I may make time later today but will just see how the day runs.

Peace......... ChrisO
 
Skippy,
we have one problem, the D160 doesn't have a BNC outlet standard. I have a couple of other things to try after going thru the manuals again last night but at this stage I would really like to do something nasty to the people who "composed" Fostex's manuals. Enough said!Peace..........ChrisO
 
Shoot- the 1624 does have a BNC word clock out, so I assumed that the D160 would as well..

Okay: can you set the VC8 to use the ADAT input from the D160 (the play side) for sync, as opposed to word clock? The D160 will be echoing whatever comes up the lightpipe right back down again, so you should be able to get a lock on the play side.

Anyway, I believe that the 160 needs to be clock master. Don't lose hope...
 
Skippy,

I have thrown this all back at Fostex's Aust distributors, as the VC-8 manual refers to configuring it as either master or slave BUT makes no mention of how to do this. And the manual was written almost exclusively for using the VC-8 with the VR800 recorder with only token reference to other recorders. Obviously someone had tunnel vision when they wrote the manual.

Anyway, I'm hoping to receive an answer from Japan in the next day or two.

ChrisO
 
I found the VC8 and D160 manuals online, at http://www.fostex.com/Support/manuals.html .

If the VC8's clock selector is set to anything other than INTERNAL, it will be the slave. Looks like you should be able to set the digital in switch to ADAT, and the clock switch to OPTICAL, on the VC8. If the operating clock on the D160 is set to internal (slave mode OFF, making it the master), it'll be sitting there outputting 0s on its ADAT outputs at whatever your selected sample rate is. The VC8 should see the ADAT bitstream coming in from the D160, sync to it, and turn the LOCKED LED green. Once you have that, you should be good to go. Try it and let me know how it works...

If that doesn't work, we can give a try at setting up the VC8 as the master, and the D160 as the slave- but I have a very bad feeling about that, because my experiences with slaving the D1624 in my rig have been pretty poor.
 
Hiya Skippy,
we appear to have had some success.......yyyyeeehaaaaaa!!!! This could be embarassing so I will try and squirm my way out of it.
OK, this "problem" first appeared when I went to dump 14 tracks off tape onto the D160 at a local studio. It was the first and only time that I had gone over 8 tracks and since I was obliged to pay for the time in the studio, I decided not to waste too much time trying to find a solution. Packed up the gear and came home.
Now as we have only recently got our 24/8 console, any attempts to reproduce have been brief, but tonight we set up to try your suggestions as well as those from Fostex (which I might add were exactly how I had configured things in the first place). They say to set the VC-8 to it's Internal setting as opposed to your idea of setting it to Optical. THEY BOTH SEEM TO WORK. But I did discover that if I dont have the signal routing on the console set up correctly then the problems occur. DONT ASK.
It seems the guy at the studio didn't know his way around his console.................at least I can try and claim ignorance as we haven't had the opportunity the really use ours yet.
Unfortunately, as of an hour ago everything is on hold. 3 days of rain and I found water has seeped into the carpet in our studio room so I'm moving funiture, guitars and stuff to try and save the carpet.
Will keep you posted once we can get back to the important stuff.

Many thanks...................ChrisO
 
That's good news. For sure, follow their suggestions in preference to mine! I'm just groping in the dark. Sounds like the D160 is much better at running as a slave than the D1624. Doesn't matter: all that matters is getting the desired result, and having the hardware not get in the way of the music.

That's good to know that the D160 will actually slave well. I think that I need to spend some time trying once again to slave my 1624 to the Hammerfall's ADAT outputs- or, more likely, get a decent external clock generator and slave _everything_ to that. Clocking setups in the digital world are critical to the operator's sanity! Anyway, that certainly points out a hole in my knowledge of my own gear. I ran out of patience trying to make it work initially: gotta go practice what I preach.

Best of luck, and stay dry. I've had water running through a studio room before during a very wet New England spring, and there's *nothing whatsoever* pleasant about that memory...
 
Skippy,

I have resolved the problem and I'm pleased to say it wasn't me or my gear!
Originally the studio had just started using a new Behringer 8buss console and the guy obviously denied it could have been at fault. Well, that console ultimately died and yesterday we tried to get the material off tape again through his second new Behringer............and it worked!!!!! The guy has changed his opinion of Behringers over the couple of months.....hehehe.

OK, thats it......all OK and Fostex not to blame.
Thanks for your input.

Peace..........

ChrisO

PS; I am putting a post in "The Rack" .....I would appreciate seeing you comments there.
 
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