D.I.Y's (building my own DAW)

  • Thread starter Thread starter mstudio1224@aol.com
  • Start date Start date
M

mstudio1224@aol.com

New member
I guess the question that I'd like to pose is this:

After carefully inspecting "CARILLON" audio computer setup
I notice that in plain site they give you the specs
(looking left & looking right) is it me or couldnt I just purchase the same specs and build it myself:

P4 1.7ghz -- windows 2000
512 Mb 400 Mhz RDRAM
20Gb system 7200rpm
40Gb system 7200rpm (seagate softsonic ATA/100)
16x10x40 CDRW
32Mb ATI Rage Pro Card

Cubase -- I have this
2408 MKII -- I have this
Midi Ex8 --- I have the MOTU EXPRESS XT 8x8
and I have a rackmount case, from previous systems

(hand on my chin) It will be cheaper than paying $2500 and probably just as stable. hmmmmm

anyone with a comment, anything I over looked ?
 
If you feel confortable doing it, you can easily put together a great system for much less than $2500. I did it, as have many folks here, and it is pretty easy. I also found it fun, and I like knowing I can upgrade or replace parts as needed.

As for the specs you gave, I would go a different route on some things. First, Windows XP is just plain better for recording than 2000. 2000 is fine, and if you have it I'd use it. But if you are buying new, go for XP (this is assuming your card has drivers, which it probably does but you should make sure first).

Second, forget RDRAM. It is more expensive and only slightly faster than DDRAM. The bechmarks on RDRAM look impressive, but there is something about how quickly it accesses the memory that slows it down. I'm out on a limb here, but I it SOMETHING like that. The effective speed is not much more than DDRAM.

I'd start with a call to the sound card tech guys or their webpage. See what motherboard they recommend and go from there. The correct mobo is essential.
 
Now when you say call the "SOUND CARD" tech guys, you mean, call MOTU for my 2408MKII, cause my PCI324 is the sound card!
Now that I think about, yeah it does have driver, cause I had to re-install it one time. --that's solved

Now you say: Windows XP (Pro) ? I know its $189

Forget RDRAM and use DDRAM

and does MOBO mean MOTHERBOARD ( I hear that a lot but didnt know what it meant) I kind of put two and two together


NEIRBO -- I appreciate it 100% even acknowledging my post
I attend to input 200% into this, I just ordered my 4U rack case
not the power supply just yet, I need to make sure of the MOBO
(heh, heh) first. Please respond with any other ideas, resolutions I should take into consideration while attaining my immaculate DAW.
 
I would use nothing but Win2k Pro(300 dollars non upgrade, 200 dollars upgrade). It has much less useless tasks going on, and it has many many many more tools. I wouldn't even toy with the idea of XP. Although I haven't used Pro, Home is crap. It's a vary friendly interface and an enjoyable, sami-stable experience, but it chugs most of the time(my 750 mhz comp runs 2kPro about 3 times faster than my 1.2 ghz on Xp Home).

Also, companies like that also charge so much money because(I do believe) they optimize the computer and the OS for audio. They also probably optimize the OS for the software it will be running. I'm not sure of any of this, but I think that is why Carrilon and all them companies list their computers as being Cubase boxes, or Logic boxes. Not just, "here, this computer will be good for audio". Ya know what I mean? I really have no idea if this is true though.
 
[email]mstudio1224@aol.com[/email] said:
I guess the question that I'd like to pose is this:

After carefully inspecting "CARILLON" audio computer setup
I notice that in plain site they give you the specs
(looking left & looking right) is it me or couldnt I just purchase the same specs and build it myself:

P4 1.7ghz -- windows 2000
512 Mb 400 Mhz RDRAM
20Gb system 7200rpm
40Gb system 7200rpm (seagate softsonic ATA/100)
16x10x40 CDRW
32Mb ATI Rage Pro Card

Cubase -- I have this
2408 MKII -- I have this
Midi Ex8 --- I have the MOTU EXPRESS XT 8x8
and I have a rackmount case, from previous systems

(hand on my chin) It will be cheaper than paying $2500 and probably just as stable. hmmmmm

anyone with a comment, anything I over looked ?
Yes, you can make it yourself, and No.. I wouldn't use any of the junk in that list.. :D Instead of P4 go with Athlon XP 2100+. Instead of RDRAM, go with DDR333 RAM. Get a Soyo Dragon Ultra mobo (yes, that means motherboard) and Maxtor D740X drives... and *whew* talk aboot old tech' on the video card. At least get a GeForce 3 Ti200.

P.S. I highly recommend XP Pro... I've used every Windows version since 3.1 and this is by far the best. I previously used W2K (for home use and for a server) and I find XP Pro to be more stable and more "intuitive" in many areas.

WATYF
 
P.S. Just so you don't have to take my advice alone aboot XP,.. check oat this thread for a bit more input on the topic.

WATYF
 
WATYF/hokypokynose

WATYF

Does that GeForce Ti 200 come with a TV/Tuner for cable access and such ((just thinking to myself I saw that before ))

that would be cool --- ANYWAY -----

The RAM is getting the best of me ((GEEEEEEESSSH))
DDRAM, SDRAM, no wait wait dont get that, get DDSSRRAM (smile)

and no XP, get 2000 -- (I'm leaning toward XP, from what I've read)


keep it coming fellas


HOKYPOKYNOSE

WIN2K PRO you say (marking his quote down)
HOME is CRAP (writing this down)
Carillon optimise there machine for audio (hey they probably do)
 
I've never used 2000, but I went from 98se to XP Pro and it's a fine OS. Much better than the former version. And I don't think there's a great difference between XP Home and Pro. If you want to run multiple processors, get Pro, but otherwise Home may be OK for you.

And if you're building an Athlon machine, you want DDR RAM. Your only other option is SDRAM, and it's obsolete. Slower than DDR (which means Double Data Rate). RDRAM is only for Intel systems and is on the way out anyway because it's way more expensive than DDR but doesn't offer much performance increase.
 
WATYF

Could you clarify this for me

Windows XP -- O.S. the operating system
Athlon XP 2100 + --- chip or something ?
DDR333RA -- memory, will I need all three or two 512
Soyo Dragon Ultra mobo ---- MOTHERBOARD, with chip or no
or is that what the ATHLON XP is

Maxtor D740X drives --- these are harddrives, but are they like the ummm like MACKIE MDR M90 type drives, with a case, that you pull out, and pop back in, or is it just a HARDDRIVE ummm
CD persay

Would a DVD-RW be acceptable to add in the set up ?

and last but not least the GeFOrce 3Ti200 -- Video Card
would one with a TV Tuner Coaxial in the back to hook up cable would that o.k. to put in, or does this one even do that

((I'd kind of like that, that's why I'm asking))
 
Re: WATYF

[email]mstudio1224@aol.com[/email] said:
Could you clarify this for me

Windows XP -- O.S. the operating system
Athlon XP 2100 + --- chip or something ?
DDR333RA -- memory, will I need all three or two 512
Soyo Dragon Ultra mobo ---- MOTHERBOARD, with chip or no
or is that what the ATHLON XP is

Maxtor D740X drives --- these are harddrives, but are they like the ummm like MACKIE MDR M90 type drives, with a case, that you pull out, and pop back in, or is it just a HARDDRIVE ummm
CD persay

Would a DVD-RW be acceptable to add in the set up ?

and last but not least the GeFOrce 3Ti200 -- Video Card
would one with a TV Tuner Coaxial in the back to hook up cable would that o.k. to put in, or does this one even do that

((I'd kind of like that, that's why I'm asking))

- Windows XP is the operating system (and most on this site consider it the best for recording)
- Athlon XP is the chip (don't get thrown off by the "XP" - it has NOTHING to do with Windows XP).
- I didn't understand your question on memory. But all the recommendations on this thread say go with DDR ram (it is just abreviated differently). A total of 512 meg should be fine. You can get it as 2 modules of 256, or 1 module of 512.
- The hard drives don't normally pop out, unless you have a special monting system. They are usually never seen. Go to CompUSA website and look for hard drives. You'll see lots of examples.
- Not sure about a DVD-RW, but I don't see why it would be a problem
- Don't know about that video card.
 
Thanks

thanks..... you've clarified more than you know

thank you, very much

((may the heavens drop riches upon you and yours))

though if it fell on your head, you'd have to use some of that money for the hospital billl -- (smile)
 
To clarify...

All parts mentioned are stand-alone parts. You can buy them as "bundles",... but for this discussion, we're talking about single components that you buy separately.

CPU:

Athlon XP is the CPU (central processing unit) It's the component that is basically the "brain" of the computer. I suggested the Athlon XP because it is still much cheaper than a P4. Nowadays, the P4 has taken the crown from Athlon as far as who has the "fastest" CPU, but in order to get a "faster" P4 you're gonna have to pay 600 some bucks, as opposed to paying only 200 or so for the fastest Athlon XP.

Mobo:

The mobo (or motherboard) is pretty much the "torso" of the computer. You plug pretty much everything in to the mobo. It does not come with a CPU already in it, unless you buy a "bundled" package. Each mobo is built for a specific CPU (it's either an Athlon mobo, or a P4 mobo, or a PIII mobo, or what have you) The newest "speed" or "flavor" of mobos for Athlon XP's is the DDR 333 boards. The "333" stands for the MHz (megahertz) of the RAM (random access memory) that they use. They have a FSB (front side bus) of 166Mhz. The FSB is the speed at which the mobo can transfer data. Also, the FSB and the type of RAM you use are closely related. That's why it's important that you pick the right type of RAM to use with certain mobos. More about RAM will be explained in the next section.

Different mobo's use different "chipsets". The chipset is like the "heart" of the mobo. It directs the flow of data traffic around the mobo. The current fastest "chipset" for Athlon mobo's is the VIA KT333 chipset. So.. when buying a mobo for an Athlon, it is most logical to buy one that uses the VIA KT333 chipset, because you will be getting the best performance. One of the better KT333 chipset mobos out there is the Soyo Dragon Ultra... If you read this review you will see that the Soyo is a mid-range contender (as far as speed), yet has many features. The hands-down winner of that review (as far as speed) was the Gigabyte GA-7VRXP. But I have heard from multiple other sources that the Gigabyte is having QC (quality control) issues and so I can't recommend them at this time. Another board in the review that I would consider is the Asus A7V333. It did better than the Soyo in most of the benchmarks, but doesn't have as many features. Asus is known for making solid, stable boards so I have no problem recommending them.

RAM:

The memory you use is determined by which motherboard you buy. So, assuming you buy a DDR333 mobo, like the Soyo Dragon Ultra, you will need DDR333 RAM DIMMs (dual inline memory modules). Those are the "sticks" of memory that you plug into the mobo. The "speed" of memory to get for DDR333 mobos is "PC2700". So when you go to buy the RAM it will say something like "256MB of PC2700 RAM". PC2700 is built "fast" enough for DDR333 boards. The reason you need a specific type is because, as mentioned before, the speed of the RAM is closely related to the speed of the FSB of the mobo. Older PC's (personal computers) used PC100 RAM. That meant that the FSB was 100Mhz. But PC100 RAM was "SDRAM", which meant the data could only transfer one way at a time, in or out... therefore the maximum speed of the RAM could only be as fast as the speed of the FSB on the mobo. But DDR (double data rate) memory can run at double the rate of SDRAM (thus the name double data rate) because it can travel in and out at the same time.

So, with DDR333 RAM, you are running a FSB of 166Mhz, both in and out at the same time... therefore, you are using 333 Mhz. (166 times 2) The "PC2700" stands for the maximum bandwidth of the RAM (2.7 GB/s) Basically, if you buy slower RAM (like PC2100) you're wasting potential performance. Keep in mind that your computer is only as fast as your slowest component. So if you spend a lot of money on a fast mobo and CPU and RAM, but buy,... say,.. a slow Hard Drive, then the computer can't read/write to and from the drive fast enough to really make use of it's potential performance. And the same goes for most other primary components. As for how much RAM to buy,.. that is up to you. I use 512MB and it is sufficient.

HDD:

The HDD (or Hard disk drive) is where all your data gets stored. These are mounted inside the case, usually where you can't see them from the outside. You can buy a mounting braket that allows you to remove your HD so you can take it from one computer to another, but most HD's are internally mounted. The Maxtor D740X HD's are a particular "flavor" of Maxtor drives. They have very good read/write and seek time and they're fairly inexpensive. (and also fairly quiet.) So when you buy a Maxtor D740X model, you can pick from different sizes, such as 20 or 40 or 60GB (gigabytes), etc. etc. The actual model number for the D740X line changes for each "size" dirve. So the 40GB size model is the 6L040J2 Model, but the 80 GB size is the 6L080J4 model. Yes,.. there are a lot of different "names" to remember, but after a while, you get used to all the different ways you have to refer to HD's and RAM and what not.

O/S:

Windows XP is the best Microsoft (also known as Micro$oft, Micro$cum, Micro$coff, Micro(blowme)soft(ly), Micro$cam, Macho$oft, and a multitude of other derogatory names :p ) O/S (or Operating System) that has ever been put out, IMNSHO. (which means "In my not so humble opinion", as opposed to IMHO which means "In my humble opinion" :p ) I would recommend it for anyone who has decided to get a MS OS. Home and Pro are the same exact OS, but Home has certain key features disabled. Basically, it was a way to get more money out of companies, by disabling the feature they knew most companies need. (which is why people call them Micro$cum). But Pro and Home use the same Kernel as each other... and all the lay-outs are the same. The only difference is that Home can't use dual CPU's and has certain networking functions disabled and what not.

DVD/CD:

For the DVD-RW, I can't recommend one.. I don't own one and haven't spent much time researching them... but there's no reason why you can't have a DVD-RW drive in your system. For a regular DVD drive I would recommend the Pioneer 106S (slotload). It's fast and quiet. For CD-RW's I'd recommend either a Plextor or Yamaha drive.

Video Card:

Basically, you have to decide how "fast" or "nice" of a video card you want. To get good performance for relatively low price, I recommend either the GeForce3 Ti 200 or the Radeon 8500LE. Both are similar in performance (though the 8500 is usually faster in most apps) and go for around 99 bucks. If you want a smoking video card, then for 50 bucks more you should get the GeForce 4 Ti 4200. This card goes for a little under 150 and completely smokes both the Ti 200 and the Radeon 8500.


I hope that helps.

WATYF
 
Last edited:
RIIING

RIIIIIIIIIIIING (as the school bell rings)

Whew, Professor WATYF sure does pack a lot of info in one hour




Just kidding,


((APPLAUSE)) I applaud you,

and once again, thanks, I will print this out, go to the nearest JAPANESE COMPUTER CENTER and have these certain items ordered, I only want the best of the best, and I guess you can say I will be following your lead --- what you mentioned is what I will get, at least I know I'll be buying right.

Thank you once again, I really mean that, THANKS

I'll keep you updated as progress takes place, I havent received my rack case yet, but it's on the way, and I will soon begin.
 
WATYF ---- question !!!

Is this a good motherboard, the : VIA APOLLO KT133A,
I know it uses SDRAM, but I found out it is stable for DAW's though it may move slower than DDRAM will it matter if it's still
STABLE?

I found a super deal on it, I await your acknowledgment as to if to purchase or not, the price is $60 6PCI, 3 Memory slots
 
Re: WATYF ---- question !!!

[email]mstudio1224@aol.com[/email] said:
Is this a good motherboard, the : VIA APOLLO KT133A,
I know it uses SDRAM, but I found out it is stable for DAW's though it may move slower than DDRAM will it matter if it's still
STABLE?

I found a super deal on it, I await your acknowledgment as to if to purchase or not, the price is $60 6PCI, 3 Memory slots

mstudio, the VIA Apollo KT133A is not a motherboard, but a chipset, or design. Different companies then make their motherboards based on the design. What brand and model is the motherboard you are looking at?

Also, I would get something with an AGP slot along with your PCI slots. That way you can put your video card on the AGP slot and not worry about any issues between video and audio drivers.

Pete
 
I was thinking of the.....

The Soyo Dragon was one
ASUS something... cant think of the name now

so it's a chipset --- (now I'm really confused) is that the same as the Athlon XP chip that would go inside the ASUS Mobo ?

Oh and I do have a AGP slot, just couldnt think of the name then

so what do you propose, I should stay with what I intended so I dont get too confused.
 
mstudio, it sounds like you are getting a little bit over your head. Building a computer is not quite as easy as buying a bunch of parts and plugging them together, but it's not rocket science either.

So let's try and keep you going in the right direction.

A chipset is basically the design of the motherboard. Not the physical layout of the motherboard, but the circuit that controls how everything talks to each other. All the RAM, hardware, etc. connect to the motherboard. The chipset is the hub that all data goes through. It is very important.

The Athlon XP is the CPU, or processor.

Everything in the computer is a chip :D.


I would advise you to get a friend who knows what they are doing to help with building the PC, or if that's not an option look into a bare bones system. It is a system with the motherboard, CPU, case and power supply already connected and tested. Then you just have to pop in drives, cards, RAM, etc.

Look up some tutorials and guides on-line to familiarize your self with the components you will need.

I would then recommend www.tomshardware.com to look at comparisons of different motherboards, processors, etc. Note, however, that it is geared more towards gaming and office applications then DAW.

Also, you may want to post further questions in the computers/soundcards forum.

Pete
 
I wouldn't get anything based off the VIA KT133a chipset. It's old news (back when VIA still had compatibility issues, but some think those have been solved by software upgrade more than by hardware changes, so who knows if it'll cause you any problems) but for 60 bucks you could get a SiS 735 chipset based mobo (like the ECS K7S5A). The SiS 735 chipset is the third faster AMD based chipset that there is (I believe). The only ones faster are the VIA KT266a and the KT333, but they'll usually be more expensive boards.

Like John said... you gotta keep these things separate. The CPU is the main "chip" that you plug into the mobo. The chipset is a chip (or... actually... a set of chips (north bridge and south bridge).. well.. except on the SiS 735 series which only has a north bridge... ok.. now I'm rambling..) where was I...? oh yeah.. the chipset is a set of chips that are built into the board.. you don't plug them in. And that's how the "type" of mobo is determined. So it's either a KT133a mobo (because it uses the KT133a chipset..) or it's a KT266a mobo, or a SiS 735 mobo.. etc... Then, once you decide what chipset you want.. you have to decide would builds the best mobo using that chipset.. Gigabyte, Asus, Abit, AOpen, Soyo, MSI, etc. etc. etc.

But like I said... if 50 bucks is all you want to drop, then look up the K7S5A on pricewatch. It runs around 50 some dollars (shipped) nowadays. That's prolly the best bang you're gonna get for 50 bucks. I've used that board and it ran fairly stable, although, at the time I wasn't doing intensive DAW applications. (but I did run it as a 24 hour server, and it handled that ok)

WATYF
 
Another stable, cheap motherboard is the Gigabyte GA-7dx. I got the "plus" version (holds extra memory, a few other upgrades) for around $90 at motherboardexpress.com .

I know the lingo can get pretty overwhelming at first, but it isn't rocket science. Chipsets are built in to motherboards and control how information is passed among the various parts of your computer. You can't separate thinking about a motherboard and its chipset any more than you can think about a car separately from its engine.

The chipset is the single most important thing to consider in buying a motherboard, so you'll often see people talking about what chipsets they have instead of what motherboard. For example, the Ga-7dx has an AMD 761 chipset for its "northbridge" and some sort of VIA for its "southbridge". Usually if someone just says they have "chipset X" they are referring to the northbridge.

The CPU chip is something you have control over. A given motherboard can handle many, but not all, types of CPU. For example, a Pentium CPU will not work in a motherboard built for an AMD CPU.
 
I got it

JohnWaynesTeeth --- turns out the guy mis interpreted the MOBO & the chip, so he threw me off. It's not rocket science I know, but it is also EASY, I'm well rounded with computers MAC & PC, it's just you get a little nervous when building the ultimate system, you want to buy right, instead of wrong. that's all

WATYF -- Thanks for the explaination I follow you loud and clear
the mention of the KT1333A was because after I read Mr. Leoni's ROLL YOUR OWN, that was one he mentioned, but then I realized that article was in 2001, I am versed in computers, but wasnt so knowledge on MOBO's at the time, so now I'm slowly getting the meaning, and learning which is best suited for my DAW

NEIRBO -- I'm not trying to do anything CHEAP, I dont plan cheap, think cheap, or go cheap, I'm going all out, that is why I'm going through all of these scenerios, because I need to ask dumb question, say stupid things to in-turn have information tossed at me where I can sift through to come to a rational decision making process --- in the end I will have learned as I went along, and have gained knowledge to use toward future DAW's, and I understand all that about a Pentium CPU in a motherboard built for an AMD -- I understand all of that ---- but thanks for the kind words to keep me on the right track ---- thank you very much
 
Back
Top