Cymbals, Cymbals, and more Cymbals.

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capnkid

capnkid

Optimus Prime
I just added up the price for the cymbals I want. For two cymbals and a set of hi hats = $997.97 :eek: .
They would be paiste 2002 series 18" crash, 24" ride, and 15" sound edge hi hats.
How long will these cymbals last?
I will just be playing for my own enjoyment, I am good now, but I want to get my timing down and play with a band.
Is it good to go ahead and learn on cymbals this expensive, or get somthing like a zildjian a custom pack?
I live way up here in the Northern Penninsula of Michigan, and there is Not a place that has such a varitey of cymbals that can be tested, for 200 miles!
what would you do? Besides move.
 
hmmm.... well there are a few things to consider in this.

To anwser your question they'll last a long time - possibly forever. But if your a heavy hitter and you've got bad teachnique then about 6 months (playing every day).

How long have you been playing? When you say your trying to get your timeing down it suggest your timing isnt very good now....in which case it seems riduculas to spend so much cash on cymbals if you cant keep time.

What kit do you have now? Will you be recording with them? How good are you? Can you afford them? ....... but regardlas of this they're all nice cymbals and if you want them, and if you can afford them then go get them!
 
Imho

I think Paiste cymbals are well worth the price, but is it worth it to YOU to spend $1000 on cymbals? With proper care, they'll last you a lifetime or two and get better with age. I've had some 20-year-old cymbals, sounded great, sold them with no problems.

Here's what I think, for what it's worth: I love the sound of Paiste, but I just don't have any use for them unless I'm playing in a huge room or auditorium. The ones I like just don't work in smaller rooms or clubs. You might not agree, but you won't know for sure until you've tried them in your space.

My housemate got caught up in the "well, Bonzo played them so they gotta be the sh*t" syndrome -- he went out and bought $2300 worth of Paiste. Lucky for him he had a 30 day money back guarantee, because the only one he ended up really liking was a china. He returned the rest.

I'ts a very unfortunate thing that you can't try before you buy, because EVERY cymbal is different. Period. Like fingerprints. If I were in your shoes I would plan a trip to NYC one weekend to test drive every cymbal on 48th Street. Oh, and put them up on good stands too.

Finally, I think the sizes are little extreme personally. How many toms do you have? Once you start trying to fit a 24" cymbal into ride position on even a five piece kit, things can get pretty crowded. Same for me with 15" hats. Things will get tonally crowded too, with all that brass ringing out. Just my experience.

My personal favorite cymbal of all time is a K Custom Dark 22" - it's a work of art - I think I paid $475 (worth it's weight in gold too). I LOVE that thing, keeps getting better and better with age... but sometimes it's just too big (both sound-wise and space-wise) for certain situations.

Ultimately it's your ears. Protect what is left of your hearing, and get some cymbals that are pleasing to YOUR ears. I only offer these opinions so that someone can learn from my experiences, but things could be different for the next guy.

Good luck , Rez
 
We need more infomation to understand your situation properlly.
 
capnkid said:
I just added up the price for the cymbals I want. For two cymbals and a set of hi hats = $997.97 :eek: .
They would be paiste 2002 series 18" crash, 24" ride, and 15" sound edge hi hats.
How long will these cymbals last?
I will just be playing for my own enjoyment, I am good now, but I want to get my timing down and play with a band.
Is it good to go ahead and learn on cymbals this expensive, or get somthing like a zildjian a custom pack?
I live way up here in the Northern Penninsula of Michigan, and there is Not a place that has such a varitey of cymbals that can be tested, for 200 miles!
what would you do? Besides move.
Click to expand...


Oh No! A Yooper! LOL! (I have a friend who lives up there somewhere.)

I would steer you clear of the 15" Hats. Those are from an age when you had to have them because they were a bit louder.
In the 2002 series, here's what I like:


14" Sound Edge hats.
19" Crash (I had an 18" and hated it, but the 19"'s have a very Bonham-ish sound. I have a 19" that i love- it's been a favorite for years.)

Unless you intend to only use 1 mounted tom (ala Bonham) I would also steer you away from that 24" Ride. One of the reasons Bonham used that sized Ride is because it was mounted on his Kick drum. By using a Boom stand, you can get it closer to you, so a 22" will do the job.

Also, if you CAN afford the price difference, step up to the Signature line for Crashes and go for the Full weights.
If Bonzo were playing Paiste today - these are what he would use. I have a 20" Full Crash, and let me tell you - it sounds like I stole it from Bonzo.
It has that perfect wash to it - I looked for almost 20 years for a cymbal like this (I had a 20" 602 that sounded almost exactly like it in the early 80's) and it is everything that I could ever want.

I'm assuming (and we all know what that means) that you are a Bonzo fan based solely on your choice of sizes. For that matter, you could be a Dale Crover fan (The Melvins) - because he uses the same sizes as Bonzo for the most part. I'm not sure about what Dave Grohl uses, but do know that he's a bigtime Bonzo head as well.

But, in this day and age you really don't need a 24" ride....but what do I know? I have 28" Kick drums. LOL! I originally intended to go with the 24" Ride as well, but it just didn't sound as good as the 22" Rides did at the time.


Tim
 
Oh, and look on Ebay. 2002's are always going on Ebay - both new and used.


Tim
 
Never used 2002's, but i love the signature series. I also have a crash from the 2000 series, and a china from the 3000 series. When I tried out ZIldjian cymbals at my local music store I nearly laughed at how much better mine were... but thats just my opinion. Lots of people prefer ZIldjian.
 
Tim Brown said:
Oh, and look on Ebay. 2002's are always going on Ebay - both new and used.


Tim
Click to expand...

well, I got all my cymbals xept my splash on ebay. And one of the crashes is reallky fuct now. SO make sure that the description and pictures are clear about the exact condition. Of course, thats 1/6 that came messed up :-P.
 
drummerdude666 said:
hmmm.... well there are a few things to consider in this.

To anwser your question they'll last a long time - possibly forever. But if your a heavy hitter and you've got bad teachnique then about 6 months (playing every day).

How long have you been playing? When you say your trying to get your timeing down it suggest your timing isnt very good now....in which case it seems riduculas to spend so much cash on cymbals if you cant keep time.

What kit do you have now? Will you be recording with them? How good are you? Can you afford them? ....... but regardlas of this they're all nice cymbals and if you want them, and if you can afford them then go get them!
Click to expand...

Sorry it took so long for a reply here, my wife goes to college and her computer is set up for wireless internet and our next door neighbor works online and just happens to have wireless internet! :D My main computer doesn't have wireless. I told him I got his signal and he was like Ohh whatever, I don't care. (Iwill be sad when he moves)
Anyway, I mentioned that I need to improve my timing because I have never played with a band, only myself. I can keep a solid beat by myself, but I don't know what to expect when I find someone to play with.
I don't have a good drumset right now, only a DW Jr. set (ha!)
I bought it for my kids to play on, but they can't reach the peddles yet, so I started playing it. I have always had a knack for the drums, I posted here before about how when I was 5 years old I use to put a pillow in my 15 year older brothers bass drum and fall asleep, I have a great love for the drums.
I like to to ride the bell on the ride cymbal, and I thought that the 24" would have a nice bell. I don't know if other people do this but, I would like to use different sizes of sticks for different sounds. someone said the 24" ride was loud, but what if say you could grab a smaller stick and ride the bell, and then work in a way to get back to a heavier stick for the beat and crashes.
I have my eye on a mapex kit that has a 24" kick and oversized floor toms and is made of maple.
Just playing the Jr. kit is making me want a big boy kit, because the Jr. falls out of tune, and the cymbals are warped and the peddles are bent, not to mention the drums don't have seperate tensioners for each head (one for both)
Sometimes I think I shoud just order a Tama stagestar kit that includes the cymbals for $389.99, but I don't want to be disapointed.
 
24 inch ride

I currently have a Zildjian 24" A Medium ride and it's a great cymbal. The bell on it is awesome. I also have 15" Zildjian New Beat hi hats and they're very musical. These guy's are just giving you their opinion when they say 24" rides and 15" hats aren't very good. I respect their opinion but I personally like them and you might too. Everybody likes different things for different music and that's what's so cool about this board is finding out what other people like.
The 24" ride is a bit dark but it's cool...and very loud! Smaller sticks will tone it down abit volume wise but then again, you don't have to hit them that hard either. It all depends on the sound you want. The 15" New beats actually record well and I like them. I'm a Bonham fan and I like his sound so I like the bigger drums and cymbals. Here's what I Play:
15" Zildjain A New beat hi hats
18" Zildjian A Medium Crash
24" Zildjian A Medium Ride
20" Zildjian A Custom Ride

6.5 X 14 Brass Snare
10 X 14 rack tom
16 X 16 Floor tom
16 X 18 Floor tom
14 X 24 Kick

It's great for heavy rock but sometimes it's cool to tone it down for mellower stuff and replace the 10x14 with a 9x13, ditch the 18, use a shallower snare and not use the 24" ride.
If you can afford the cymbals you want, then by all means get them. You might love them.
Good luck.
\m/
 
capnkid said:
Sorry it took so long for a reply here, my wife goes to college and her computer is set up for wireless internet and our next door neighbor works online and just happens to have wireless internet! :D My main computer doesn't have wireless. I told him I got his signal and he was like Ohh whatever, I don't care. (Iwill be sad when he moves)
Anyway, I mentioned that I need to improve my timing because I have never played with a band, only myself. I can keep a solid beat by myself, but I don't know what to expect when I find someone to play with.
I don't have a good drumset right now, only a DW Jr. set (ha!)
I bought it for my kids to play on, but they can't reach the peddles yet, so I started playing it. I have always had a knack for the drums, I posted here before about how when I was 5 years old I use to put a pillow in my 15 year older brothers bass drum and fall asleep, I have a great love for the drums.
I like to to ride the bell on the ride cymbal, and I thought that the 24" would have a nice bell. I don't know if other people do this but, I would like to use different sizes of sticks for different sounds. someone said the 24" ride was loud, but what if say you could grab a smaller stick and ride the bell, and then work in a way to get back to a heavier stick for the beat and crashes.
I have my eye on a mapex kit that has a 24" kick and oversized floor toms and is made of maple.
Just playing the Jr. kit is making me want a big boy kit, because the Jr. falls out of tune, and the cymbals are warped and the peddles are bent, not to mention the drums don't have seperate tensioners for each head (one for both)
Sometimes I think I shoud just order a Tama stagestar kit that includes the cymbals for $389.99, but I don't want to be disapointed.
Click to expand...

Well the most important thing is your kit. Your best bet is too figure out how much you want to spend on your total kit. Then I split it in half. Half on cymbals half on kit. There's no point having a pearl masterworks if your playing on CB starter cymbals. You'd HATE it! :rolleyes:

Seeing as you're considering spending $1000 on cymbals you would be VERY dissapointed with a Tama Stagestar kit with it's cymbals. They are basicly metal discs of crap. You hit them and they'll either break or warp...but even if they don't warp after a few hits they sound awful.

I use on pair of sticks per band usually. There isnt much point changing sticks halfway through a song. Different sticks DO make different sounds...but seriously, nopebody can hear the differece most of the time. :rolleyes:

I saw a clinic by Ralph Salmins last year. He's getting big work in the UK, Lord of the rings soundtrack, Harry Potter soundtrack etc etc. BIG SESSIONS!

Anyway he was telling us to always use differnt sticks per song when in the studio. He got out a pair of 7As and hit his 21" Sabian HH ride. Nice sound.

Then a pair of Mike portnoy sig sticks (nylon tip). Nice sound....the same nice sound. :D He went through about 20 pairs of sticks and nobody could tell the differnce! This was at DrummerLive 2004 with big names watching this guy, Thomas lang, Steve Smith, Mylois Johnston, Mike Dolbear etc etc.

We burst out laughing at this guy as he was getting flustered and embaressed but no matter how hard he tried to make the sticks sound different, they didn't!

...Hmm slighlty of topic there :)

Sorry to keep asking questions and not giving you anwsers but i'd really suggest buying a new kit with the cymbals.. If you want to do that, than tell me how much you want to spend and I'll come up with some more options for you :)
 
drummerdude666 said:
Well the most important thing is your kit. Your best bet is too figure out how much you want to spend on your total kit. Then I split it in half. Half on cymbals half on kit. There's no point having a pearl masterworks if your playing on CB starter cymbals. You'd HATE it! :rolleyes:

Seeing as you're considering spending $1000 on cymbals you would be VERY dissapointed with a Tama Stagestar kit with it's cymbals. They are basicly metal discs of crap. You hit them and they'll either break or warp...but even if they don't warp after a few hits they sound awful.

I use on pair of sticks per band usually. There isnt much point changing sticks halfway through a song. Different sticks DO make different sounds...but seriously, nopebody can hear the differece most of the time. :rolleyes:

I saw a clinic by Ralph Salmins last year. He's getting big work in the UK, Lord of the rings soundtrack, Harry Potter soundtrack etc etc. BIG SESSIONS!

Anyway he was telling us to always use differnt sticks per song when in the studio. He got out a pair of 7As and hit his 21" Sabian HH ride. Nice sound.

Then a pair of Mike portnoy sig sticks (nylon tip). Nice sound....the same nice sound. :D He went through about 20 pairs of sticks and nobody could tell the differnce! This was at DrummerLive 2004 with big names watching this guy, Thomas lang, Steve Smith, Mylois Johnston, Mike Dolbear etc etc.

We burst out laughing at this guy as he was getting flustered and embaressed but no matter how hard he tried to make the sticks sound different, they didn't!

...Hmm slighlty of topic there :)

Sorry to keep asking questions and not giving you anwsers but i'd really suggest buying a new kit with the cymbals.. If you want to do that, than tell me how much you want to spend and I'll come up with some more options for you :)
Click to expand...

Somewhere between $1000 and $2000.
Non-musical people don't have a clue what instruments cost. It was kind of a shock for me at first too. I just thought a good drumset cost around $500, and never thought of the cymbals and their cost.
I buillt a guitar from Warmoth and people ask what it cost and I say $550, their draws drop like it's I'm crazy or somthing.
I can imagine having company over and someone asking "Nice drums how much did they cost" (why do people do that) and I say $2000 :eek:
 
My main bass cost me $3000 not to mention another $2000+ for my amp. If I were a drummer I wouldn't have any problem investing 3 or 4 grand on a kit.
Turns out I'm not a drummer but I do have a kit in my studio I'm working on that I keep throwing money at. The wife doesn't get it.

If it were me, I would get my drums first and get some kind of cymbal starter pack that at least has decent hats and pick up cymbals as you need them.
 
What I'd go for...

Ok, without asking many many more questions which you kinda have to do to fully understand what you want and then what best to advise, I thought that I'd show you what i'd do if i had $1000 - $2000 to spend on drums. Now i dont know what sort of kit you want or music you like etc. But for me...

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=101/g=perc/search/detail/base_pid/448768X/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=101/g=perc/search/detail/base_pid/447193/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=101/g=perc/search/detail/base_pid/441334/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=101/g=perc/search/detail/base_pid/446489/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=101/g=perc/s=accessories/search/detail/base_pid/449350/

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=101/g=perc/s=accessories/search/detail/base_pid/448909/

You'll need a 16" head.. and reso's for them all.

Buy a pedal at your disgression...oh and a stool. That set up would rock.

Massive step up from your kit now... hmm.. are you gunna be recording with this baby?

Well that about $1900 worth of gear, but if you just wanted a kit and cymbals as the next step up type thing then we'll have to start all over. :rolleyes:
 
thanx for your suggestions and help.
can you post a pic for the mapex pro m 5 peice? It seems a little more simple, and it has oversized drums and is more bonham esque.
 
capnkid said:
thanx for your suggestions and help.
can you post a pic for the mapex pro m 5 peice? It seems a little more simple, and it has oversized drums and is more bonham esque.
Click to expand...


If you're after Bonham-ish. $899.00 + Shipping. It's the exact same type of set up Bonham used INCLUDING a 26" Kick drum. Gretsch is going to make a fortune out of these - because Ludwig wants over $2,000 for the Amber Vistalite Bonham kit. It's not worth it - I played that kit for years (Bonzo-head, here) and it's just not worth the money - the plastic shells eventually cracked from the drumhead tension. Bonzo didn't even use that kit to record! That is the big myth - the only thing that Vistalite kit appears in - is the Song remains the same. He used a Green Sparkle wooden kit in the same setup that he had almost the entire time- eventually opting for a Stainless Steel kit when Ludwig began offering them in the late 70's.


The Gretsch setup is:


6.5" x 14"
10" x 14"
16" x 16"
16" x 18"
16" x 26"
Either Black Flake (a sparkle) or White Swirl.
6-ply 100% Mahogany shells.

http://www.interstatemusic.com/weba...1&storeId=10051&productId=900025722&langId=-1


Now, before you get excited - it's just a shell pack - you'd still have to buy cymbal stands , a snare stand, a hi-hat stand, and a Kick pedal.

BUT, you could just buy a Hi-hat, snare stand, 2 cymbals stands, and a kick pedal - of your choice - and you'll have the basis for a great kit that you probably won't need to upgrade for quite a while....if ever.

I don't like the fact that the kit comes with 1.6mm hoops, I prefer 2.3mm hoops, but the hoops can be replaced with 2.3mm's for about $30 per drum.

attached is a closeup of the kit- just remember, this is just the Drums - no stands , pedals, or cymbals are included.


Tim
 

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capnkid said:
That kick is 2" bigger than bonhams.
thanx for the info.
Click to expand...


No it isn't.
Bonham used a 26".

Oh wait, you mean the depth.That's just going to give it more "Boom". :D
 
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