Cymbal Choice, please help, opinions please Im so confused

Greg_L said:
Completely ludicrous.
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Okay, so the almighty Greg_L has pissed all over the quality of Zildjian cymbals and the newbee retards will undoubtedly follow his lead. Of course Zildjian has a very long and respected history of manufacturing the highest quality cymbals. Sabian is an off-shoot of Zildjian (being a relative that had a family feud and started his own company) and Sabian Cymbals are also very high quality cymbals (very very much like Zildjian). I've owned Paiste cymbals and they are appropriately named, just like in diamonds, there are the real thing and then there are paste which is a poor imitation and paste breaks much easier (cymbals too). Istanbul and Bosphorous are makers of very fine cymbals (although very distinctly colored sound-wise) Wuhan makes cheap junk, but better than the cheap junk grade of the bigger company's "student/starter" grade cymbals. But go ahead and buy what you will, but before you dismiss Zildjian cymbals, maybe you want to check and see which drummers are playing their cymbals and despite what anyone would tell you, Sabian and Zildjian are practically equall in quality and they also sound very much alike.
 
Rimshot said:
Okay, so the almighty Greg_L has pissed all over the quality of Zildjian cymbals .
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I did nothing of the sort. Show me where I pissed all over Zildjian. I didn't, and you're a liar. I just said for me, I don't like them.

It IS ludicrous though to declare any one cymbal manufacturer as the hands down best, and to not bother with anything else. That's irresponsible, not factual, and downright stupid.
 
Greg_L said:
I did nothing of the sort. Show me where I pissed all over Zildjian. I didn't, and you're a liar. I just said for me, I don't like them.
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Uh................ that would be right here:
Greg_L said:
Lol. As usual I'm just the opposite of rimjob. Zildjians are my least favorite major manufacturer. I prefer Paistes, although I haven't played em all from every brand. I think the sabian HH and AAX stuff is really nice too. I used to like the Zildjian Z Customs, but I think they quit making them, so I'm left pretty unimpressed with the entire Zildjian lineup. After much research I bought a bunch of 2002's and a RUDE and I couldn't be happier. I don't even pay attention to cymbals anymore.
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Lol. You can't be serious. That's not me pissing on zildjian. WTF? That's just me saying that I generally don't like them. I didn't say anything bad about the cymbals or the company. I just don't like their stuff. If that's "pissing on them" then you need to log off and hide in the closet because the world is way too scary for someone like you.

Damn dude, you're really reaching here.
 
I'll give you this one though: there isn't one and only one great maker of cymbals. I happen to like Zildjian and as a second by extension, Sabian. I have had a lot of bad luck with Paiste cymbals breaking (and I am far from a heavy hitter) and I don't like "sheet made" cymbals as a rule. There is also a whole lot of totally crap cymbals out there, but if you stay with one of the bigger makers, it'll be a matter of taste.
 
Rimshot said:
if you stay with one of the bigger makers, it'll be a matter of taste.
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Yes, exactly. All of the major brands make good and bad stuff. Stick with the higher end models from each manufacturer and just let your ears decide which one you like best.
 
GEEZE, comprehension skills certainly fail when emotion supercharges the attempt at reading.
I've reread the series of posts in question & "completely ludicrous" was the response made to the inane suggestion that ,essentially, there was only 1 brand worth bothering about.

Sound is a matter of taste and taste is ubased on exposeure, experience, tradition & some personal bits n pieces.
Brand worship is a) silly & b) foolhardy, as well as simply buying into & perpetuating the hyperbole. (our prime minister mispronounced that one!).

The newer the bee the louder the buzz too!
 
How is saying something is your least favorite and that your unimpressed "shitting all over them."

HOW DO READING? ¯\(°_o)/¯
 
Saying Zildjian is the only serious choice is using their advertizing tag line in a tongue in cheek manner. Buy whatever you want, I don't make a buck either way.
 
Guitargodgt said:
How is saying something is your least favorite and that your unimpressed "shitting all over them."

HOW DO READING? ¯\(°_o)/¯
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The line was actually "pissing all over them". But since you are an expert at reading, you probably already knew that. :p
 
I played Zildjian for over 30 years (when I was coming up, there was no Sabian and Paiste did not have much distribution. About 10 years ago, I was able to visit the Sabian factory and meet many of the employees (most had left Zildjian to join Sabian) - I was impressed with the commitment to artists and to try to create new colors. I went in the cymbal vault and tried dozens of sounds and I fell in love with the Sabian HH series and purchased a complete set (2 rides, 7 crashes and 3 splashes) - in part because I got a great discount - but many because I loved the sound. So now I play Sabian.

Over the years I've owned some Paiste, a couple of Wuman China cymbals - and about 15 years ago I helped a guitar player select cymbals for his studio kit - after trying a lot of cymbals we selected a set of Paiste Signature series - and to this day those cymbals track better than anything we've tried (including my beloved Sabian HH).

After over 40 years of gigging and sessions and having owned at least 60 cymbals and having played dozens more - I've learn there is no "best" brand. It depend on the appication (live vs. studio, heavy metal vs. jazz, etc. - and - it depend on what colors the individual musician is moved by.

As long at you avoid the B8s, ZBT's etc. - all the manufacturers have quality products (and I've even played a few B8s, ZBTs, Wuhans, etc - that sounded very decent).
 
There is no doubt that paiste is the king of b8. They make some very good sounding cymbals from that alloy.
 
When I started playing in the mid 60's Zildjians were the only game in town. A lot of the ones I like were actually marching band cymbals that had been "liberated" from various HS bands (but not by me, I only received them).

At that time, a lot of the Zildjians that were in the Arkansas music stores were a little to "thin" for my taste, especially hi-hats.

I bought a new kit about 5 years ago, and while I had the money to buy whatever cymbals I wanted, I ended up getting Sabian XS20's. They're kind of "mid-level" cymbals, but the gave the the sound and a "thickness" that I wanted.

The "thickness" thing is hard to quantify, but while the cymbals speak quickly, they have a solid and consistent "tone" from the strike to the end of the decay.

I'm also using one "odd" cymbal, an 18" crash/ride with 6 rivets equally spaced about 2" in from the rim. It gives a nice "vintagey" sound...
 
You see, I often like thinner cymbals to very heavy cymbals, but not for everything. I own many cymbals (70 - 80) and I use them for different things. Certain cymbals always stay on my kit such as an old Avedis Zildjian 24" ride from the late 50's-early 60's that I got from my drum teacher. 15" Zildjian "K" high hats (but I use a 15" custom A fast crash for the top for this incredible high hat sound) and an 18" Zildjian A crash. Everything else gets switched up depending on what sound I want. I own cymbals by Sabian, Istanbul, Bosphorous and Paiste. A bunch from Wuhan, Stagg and even a pice of crap from Pearl. I sometimes would buy cymbals for a certain effect for a session and when I was done with the session, I might sell it or put it in a cymbal case for possible future use.
I prefer caste cymbals that were made with craftsmanship and care. I don't like sheet cymbals that are cold forged (like Paiste) because as they will sound alright if you use them for crash effects or a constant ride, the bells always suck and don't give me the tonality I'm looking for. Also because of the way in which they are made (cold hammered sheet bronze), they get very stressed and brittle (this is something that gives them their bright sound) but it can cause cracking and splitting rather quickly because of the microscopic fissures that are formed in their making.
Caste cymbals are also cold hammered and lathed, but the taper from bell to edge is already there in the casting. They are not stressed as much in their making.
All of the cheapies like B8, ZBT and the like are great for students and for pounders, but as instruments, they suck.
 
i go into my local music store, that has a pretty good selection of used equipment,

i set up a cymbal stand next to a display kit (expensive with brand new cymbals)

and spend 10 minutes selecting and playing with the cymbals from the used section directly compared to the cymbals on the new kit its next to,

when i find one that sounds similar/close i put it to one side,

all the cymbals i use sound exactly the same (or very close to) the expensive new cymbals, but cost me a fraction of the cost of new.

i typically pay $20. i have 1 cymbal that sound like a 'china' i paid $5 for, and yes, they do sound as good as $250 new cymbals,

because played side by side, with close listening, they sound about the same

trust your ears :)
 
60ndown said:
i go into my local music store, that has a pretty good selection of used equipment,

i set up a cymbal stand next to a display kit (expensive with brand new cymbals)

and spend 10 minutes selecting and playing with the cymbals from the used section directly compared to the cymbals on the new kit its next to,

when i find one that sounds similar/close i put it to one side,

all the cymbals i use sound exactly the same (or very close to) the expensive new cymbals, but cost me a fraction of the cost of new.

i typically pay $20. i have 1 cymbal that sound like a 'china' i paid $5 for, and yes, they do sound as good as $250 new cymbals,

because played side by side, with close listening, they sound about the same

trust your ears :)
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Before I throw the bullshit flag I would like to know specifically what cymbals you paid 20 bucks for.

Ive found some good deals in my time but ive never seen a cymbal for $20 that sounded worth a crap or wasnt cracked.

Again specific examples please!
 
I actually got a really good 1960's Avedis Zildjian 18" crash for $10 and it was in perfect shape. It was in a thrift store and a bunch of drums came in and I saw this cymbal (all so tarnished it was brown) and I asked the girl, she shrugged her shoulders and said $10. So I bought it. The rest of the drums were absolute junk early 60's Japanese beginner kids drums, but this cymbal was a real (lucky) find. Usually in the used section of my local drum store (Long Island Drum Center) I buy cymbals in the $100 and under range. They have others for a lot more, but if you're willing to really look, you can find deals.
 
I can see a thrift store selling a cymbal for 10 bucks, I just couldnt see a music store selling good used cymbals for 20 bucks, unless a bunch crack heads ran it maybe!

Good find though!
 
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