apl
Stand Up Comity
Which is better, shaping by hand with a triangular file, or one of those files with the fret shape built in? Why?
muttley600
Banned
It depends on the wire, how much crowning you have to do and what your prepared to invest in tools. Both are good methods. It's a good idea to have both tools at your disposal. The fret crowning files you have to buy and get the best you can afford. The quarter round files are also handy.
The three corner file you can make if you have a bench grinder. Get really good fine cut file if you do and a few different grades is also helpful. Crowning frets correctly is a skill that takes a bit of time to get spot on and most people I know have preferred methods. Mine is a bit of them all.
My crowning files I use I had specially made and are diamond cut, they cost a pretty penny but they will see me to my grave before they need replacing.
The three corner file you can make if you have a bench grinder. Get really good fine cut file if you do and a few different grades is also helpful. Crowning frets correctly is a skill that takes a bit of time to get spot on and most people I know have preferred methods. Mine is a bit of them all.
My crowning files I use I had specially made and are diamond cut, they cost a pretty penny but they will see me to my grave before they need replacing.
apl
Stand Up Comity
Are you using a Dia-Sharp stone for leveling?
muttley600
Banned
I have several things I use depending on the job in hand. Sometimes if I just want to do a small area then I'll use a fine small file or a small Arkansas stone about 2.5" long. For the whole fingerboard I have a Diamond stone I know is dead flat cuts very fine. It is very similar to the Dia-sharp bench stones you can get these days. It's about 7" long. I'm always wary of using anything longer. I think the current ones come in at about 6". If your in the market for them get the finest cut and if you can select it yourself to make sure it's dead flat. I ordered some a while back that I had to return due to a belly on them. Not something you want on any bench stone.
They are a great investment and well worth the money.
eyema_believer
Bondservant
Do you have any specific recommendations in files for stainless steel frets?
muttley600
Banned
Hte the things, so avoid them at all costs. If I do come across them I just plough into them with what I have. The diamond cutting stuff does it and a lot of work goes into polishing them after.
apl
Stand Up Comity
Another calibration issue!
How do you know which one is flat?
Stewmac sells one that's guaranteed to .001" per foot, but then you stick sandpaper to it, and I can't imagine they hold that tight a tolerance on the thickness of the paper, the glue, and the abrasive.
apl
Stand Up Comity
Oh, and thanks for the advice on getting the finest cut.
muttley600
Banned
Another calibration issue!
How do you know which one is flat?
Stewmac sells one that's guaranteed to .001" per foot, but then you stick sandpaper to it, and I can't imagine they hold that tight a tolerance on the thickness of the paper, the glue, and the abrasive.
I have a cast machine table that has been milled flat and I use it a lot to test various parts I'm working on. I don't know what the tolerance on it is. My Uncle has a machine shop that does such stuff, I trusted him on that one.
The tolerance of a bench stone needs to be fairly flat and the best way to test it is to lay a known straight edge steel rule or what ever from corner to corner in both directions also along the length, both edges and middle. If you can see or feel a noticeable gap then it's not the one. You don't need to be down to the tolerance that Stewmac quote. Get one that is as flat as make no difference. As a decent Diamond stone can cost a fair bit it's worth seeking out a decent one.
A diamond stone should hold its shape. Other stones eventually wear to a concave shape. When that happens you need to either dress it or get a new one. Dressing them is a pain and involves a flat machined bed a sheet of glass and lots of elbow grease and iron fillings. You can get them ground by a machine shop. I replace them and use the old concave ones for sharpening gouges and knives where a perfect flat is not essential. Having said that most of my decent bench stones are water stones. They wear quickly but are easier to flatten. A good sharpening technique will prolong the life of any bench stone. I keep the ones I use for fret dressing separate and only use them for that.
muttley600
Banned
I haven't seen either of those so can't comment. Maybe Light has, he may be able to comment. Personally I like a stone a bit wider but thats just preference. My main concern would be how fast or coarse the cut is. Ideally you want a slow cut and you get that from a fine stone or grit paper. Fret leveling is one of those jobs where you want to be precise about how much you remove. 180 grit seems a bit coarse for my liking. As I said though everyone has their own preference regarding fret dressing so if your thinking of doing a few it's worth trying out some different tools on some junkers. See what works for you.
At that price I would be prepared to give one a try. Sadly I'd pay that again to get it shipped here. The Dia-Sharp stones are good investment if a little more expensive. They can double as a good bench stone.
Light
New member
Those look more or less like the ones Stew-Mac sells (from what I can see), and I only really like Stew-Mac's big one for spot leveling. They are too short for me. The main files we have for fret leveling in our shop are a 12 inch single cut bastard file that we cut the handle off of and mounted in a wood block, and a 12 inch double cut file to which we did the same. We've been using the same files for about 37 years now, so they are dull as shit at this point. They are, by definition, slow to remove material. They are both wider and longer than the Stew-Mac files, but we are all so used to them that we have a hard time with anything else. I have tried Muttley's diamond plate idea, and I liked it, but we're all kind of hide bound, so I keep using the files we've always used.
For crowning, I like an old Stew-Mac diamond crowning file that they no longer make, but most of the folks in our shop just use an 8" single cut Nicholson Mill Bastard file with "safed" edges. Everyone has a couple of these; we grind the edges off on a bench grinder - go slow, if you over heat it you will ruin your file. Each person has different preferences for these. Our shop manager has been using the same ones for about 27 years now, as near as I can tell, but one of our other repair folks replaces them about every year or two (that's at probably a couple hundred fret jobs each year). They go dull really fast if you use them on stainless steel, but the size, weight, and stiffness of the larger file makes them go much faster, and gives a cleaner cut as they absorb more of the vibration.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
apl
Stand Up Comity
Cool, thanks!
(*hides under table*)
muttley600
Banned
The Dia-Sharp stone is very similar to some I have. Use it dry and wash it off with water. If you use it for sharpening use water as a carrier definitely no oil on it. They are good stones.
The crowning file should do most popular medium sized frets. You'll find you'll need a few other sizes if your going to work on a few guitars. Fret widths and crown vary a lot more than people realise. You can get them as you need them. For now you can use some flat files with ground safe edges.
Micromesh is good stuff if a little expensive. I use it but have found myself using Abralon pads these days. They last ages and wear in well, cost a fraction of the price and do a very good job. You can get them upto 4000 grit. I've been recommending them for a while to others mainly because I was skeptical to start with but was very pleased with them and their customer service. Micromesh is the most popular choice though and is good stuff.
Now how much are you prepared to pay for talent? I have some somewhere....
