Critics?

[jay_isaacs]

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Hi this is my first set of lyrics which i have been hapy with. I am currently in the process of putting them into a song called 'Just how I'm feeling'. I'd be grateful if some of you expert songwriters could cast a critical eye over them and tell me where i can improve. Bear in mind this is my best effort - just so you know what I'm capable of!

Thanks!

 

[Frankie Rage]

Well, before the experts get here... (I'm not one..)

I am loathe to suggest what I'd do to "improve" it because my method would be to work with the lyric AND melody/music all together. It's a song lyric not a poem so we only have half the story here and in many songs, the lyric is less than half..

What I would say is that it reads well enough. There were a few lines I particularly liked.. it's not a lyric I'd throw away at all ..but I would want to develop it for sure and take out some of the "ordinarier" phrases or phrases that have been used a lot in songs (e.g. "hope hanging by a thread" is a bit of a cliche, maybe..) to try and make it a little bit more poetic, maybe a bit less obvious. Not necessarily more "flowery" or "airy-fairy" though, but a little more poetic, and a little more oblique maybe.

Like many song lyrics I thought the first verse was the better and I'd be working on the lyric to bring up any later verses up to match the first in quality of lines and the expression of ideas.

Also, can you add anything else to the basic idea of being "lost" or "at odds" with the World? Otherwise, you may say it all in one verse and just be repeating that same basic idea in all the verses.

Which may work, or not.. but you might want to look at that. With a great melody it might not matter too much anyway BUT don't underestimate the power of the good/great lyric!

That's all for now. It's a good enough lyric to start with for for what could develop into a good song. Certainly, don't hang you head in despair (like the protagonist in the song!)

Post it with the melody you have in mind (if you like). You'll certainly get listened to here and other songwriters of all styles and capabilities will offer constructive views which may be of use to you at this stage.

Good luck!

Frankie xxx

 

[gecko zzed]

Frankie has said what I would have said.

Sometimes it is hard to judge how a set of lyrics will work without the context of the music.

There are some lines that are pretty good and which show originality:
"looking at the world through broken glass"
"tears distort the truths i see"

Many of the rest, as Frankie notes, are pretty common and standard, and maybe you could go through to see if you can find more original alternatives.

There is a confusion of metaphors as we get towards the end of the song: we're travellng down a road, then we are leafing through the 'pages' of a book, wondering what's behind the 'door', and looking at a 'canvas'. You might look at that to see whether you can rationalise that profusion.

 

[Diverdown]

Hi Jay and welcome
Im a relative newbie myself and am being helped out with songs by some of the fine fellows on this site.

I concur with the previous comments and can only say that I rewrite constantly and setting your lyrics to music will change many things , I find that especialy when your lyrics are literal and you are conveying clear thought and emotion it becomes more challenging to set it to music as sylable count, diction and cadence seem to become more critical compared to abstract phrasing.

Ill attach some lyrics from Glen Hansard (one of my fav writers) to illustrate
how "abstract phrasing" in my opinion gives you room to manouver ad helps avoid the pitfalls of cliche and sameness.
I highly recomend you google it and listen to this as its a beautifull song superbly crafted and an example of a level of Composing talent that I one day hope to emulate

I dont nessesarily know what the lyrics are saying in this song but I "feel" the song so intently it gives me shivers and thats something I crave like an addict needs their next fix
Cheers
DD


The Moon
Glen Hansard and Marketa Irglova

Gmaj7 Bm

Gmaj7 Bm
Cut the bonds with the moon
And let the dogs gather
Burn the gauze in the spoon
And suck the poison up

A G Bm
And bleed

Gmaj7 Bm
Shut the door to the moon
And let the birds gather
Play no more with the fool
And let the souls wander

A G Bm
And bleed
A G Bm
From the soul

F#m Em7 D
A slow hurt.. and it breaks us..
And so down,
Down, down and so plain
So down
When you play some more it seems so
And my friends are past this game
Of breakdowns
And our friends that are lost at sea..
Throw down
And I'll break the wasted space
Slow down, slow down,
If you don't slow down, slow down
If you don't slow down, slow..

Gmaj7 Bm

Gmaj7 Bm
Cut the bonds with the moon
And watch the dogs gather

 

[thestuckup]

What kind of music do you listen to/aspire to write, Jay? Just curious.

 

[jay_isaacs]

Thanks for all the input so far guys. Really good constructive criticism - much appreciated!

Like many song lyrics I thought the first verse was the better and I'd be working on the lyric to bring up any later verses up to match the first in quality of lines and the expression of ideas.

Yeah - thats a problem I seem to suffer from regularly! I tend to get a really good verse write it down and then try to follow it - and usually fail miserably!

I find it quite hard to translate my lyrics into music. I tend to get stuck using the same chords and not finding the melody that works best with the song. I have ideas but I find them hard to translate - maybe it's because I'm still a novice recorder or maybe I just don't have the talent!
Any tips in this regard would be MORE than welcome.

In answer to your question thestuckup - I have so many influences. Some of my absolute favourites are: Pink Floyd, The Cure, Feeder, Richard Ashcroft, Glen Hansard, Tori Amos, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, Damien Rice, Lindsey Buckingham and loads more!

 

[gecko zzed]

I find it quite hard to translate my lyrics into music. I tend to get stuck using the same chords and not finding the melody that works best with the song.

I find that happens with me too, when I try to put chords to a set of lyrics.

One of the things I like to do is try and forget about chords altogether, to start with.

You could go for a walk somewhere, with your lyrics on a bit of paper. See if your footsteps gives you a beat. See if you can sing a melody as you walk along. Sometimes you get lucky.

Then you would have to see if you can still remember it by the time you get back (unless you take a handheld recorder with you).

Then you can try and pick out the notes of your melody on a guitar or keyboard. And transfer that melody (and beat) to a computer.

With this in place you can experiment with different chords . . . and with this approach, you will be fitting chords to a melody, rather than fitting a melody to the chords.

 

[Frankie Rage]

What Mr Gecko said: Bingo! Me too! And over the years I've come to enjoy this way of working!

Great first verse, then can't equal it:

Yeah - thats a problem I seem to suffer from regularly! I tend to get a really good verse write it down and then try to follow it - and usually fail miserably!

I reckon maybe we all get this one. This is fortunes of war to some extent. What I have done to combat this is take a new lyric as far as I can and then... leave it alone for awhile. Move on to another song. This can mean I end up with a lot of bits and half finished lyrics/songs. But eventually I'll get back to the first one, and if nothing still comes, I'll try and fit random bits of the lyrics (and tunes) of the other "works in progress" into the piece.

Of course, many/most don't fit at all BUT eventually something gives or this messing about creates a new spark from somewhere.. ..and if it doesn't? I do have bits of songs that I can't finish that go back decades! The only difference now is that I don't worry about it any more.. It worried me most in the early days when for a very long time I couldn't seem to finish anything to my satisfaction. For myself, I would rather work on a song over a long period of time and end up closer to what I want than compromise just to get the song finished. Sadly, I've never been pushed by my record company to finish songs to get my next album out on time!

One thing more, after trying to write lyrics for "donkeys years" I now find that if I want to I can finish a lyric on "craft" alone. What I mean is, that I have done enough now to somehow call up the words out of a huge back catalogue in my mind and I can finish anything to a "workman like" conclusion. I tend not to do that but at last now I can, if I ever need to*

*Producers please note!

Fx

 

[SEDstar]

...

"Sadly, I've never been pushed by my record company to finish songs to get my next album out on time!"

so, what band are you in?
or can we just see your name on the CD liner notes?

 

[Frankie Rage]

"Sadly, I've never been pushed by my record company to finish songs to get my next album out on time!"

so, what band are you in?
or can we just see your name on the CD liner notes?

I was being ironic. My band(s) never had recording contracts!

The Producer said: "If you don't know how to read music, son, you're no use to us!"

 

[thestuckup]

I find it quite hard to translate my lyrics into music. I tend to get stuck using the same chords and not finding the melody that works best with the song. I have ideas but I find them hard to translate - maybe it's because I'm still a novice recorder or maybe I just don't have the talent!
Any tips in this regard would be MORE than welcome.

In answer to your question thestuckup - I have so many influences. Some of my absolute favourites are: Pink Floyd, The Cure, Feeder, Richard Ashcroft, Glen Hansard, Tori Amos, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, Damien Rice, Lindsey Buckingham and loads more!

I too, write lyrics first often times - although I write in all different manners on different occassions. I don't thing the struggle you encounter has much to do with talent; it is a difficult craft where everyone is continually learning - at least if you are struggling with the compatibility of your lyrics and melody it indicates you are not sacrificing either which, I think many writers fall victim too.

I like BRMC as well. And the wall was probably my favorite album when I was 13 and 14 - how healthy is that? I'm still anti-convention/everything so maybe it had some effect on me, or maybe I just empathized with the lyrics. At 14. haha.