Creating more sonic space?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Muzzaman
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Mixerman said:
Second, I don't know how anyone can listen to those mixes and think the drums sound dry. It's all room mics. Yeah, it's obviously not a huge concrete room or anything, but I'm hearing all distant mics and little-to-no close mics. Let's find out if there's a reason for this.
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I'm not debating the mic technique he used...I'm saying the drums sound flat and dry with no real beef to them for Metal type of music. They can be room mics and still make the kit sound flat and dry if the room was like that.
I understand your use of the word "ambient"...as meaning "distant"...but that's still a pretty dry sounding kit.
 
The drums sound more prominent now...though I think they could still be beefed up some more...tone-wise.
 
How many mics did you use on the drums? aaaahhh......just saw your post. that's why they sound so far back in the mix. Just room mics on the kit? no snare or kick mic?
 
Muzzaman said:
Apologies, missed the above, no no close mics on this recording. :)

Muzza.
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Yes. This is your problem on this track.

The way I see it, you have four options: One, add a kik and snare sample to the track and painstakingly place them into your track. Two, reamp the guitars so that they have a similar ambiance to the drums. Three, scrap what you have and start again, this time with some mics relatively close to the kit in conjunction with your room mics. Four, move on, do the best you can with what you have and do better on your next try.

My recommendation would be the last of these options. Learning how to record and mix is a long process, and your early recordings are not going to offer you professional results. You've made a classic mistake, one that has been made by countless recordists and mixers. The good news is, you've learned from your mistake (we hope!). Close mic the drums in conjunction with your aggregate stereo mics. This will give you more room to operate on future projects.

That's not to say there aren't times to use only the aggregate stereo image, but while you're learning it's best to offer yourself some control.

If you DO choose the last option, try aggressively compressing the drums. Unfortunately, hardware compressors are much better for this, particularly as it relates to fixing things, but if that's not an option, try all of your plug-ins and see if any of them do the trick. Try a fast attack/fast release with a high ratio. If that doesn't do it for you, play with the attack and release ratios until it does something good and punchy. Use your EQ to boost the kik and snare (kik is going to be in the 100hz range, snare will be in the 2-3k range). If you put the EQ before the compressor, then your snare and kik EQ boosts will hit the compressor (especially if you're aggressive with the EQ). If you put the EQ boosts after the compressor, you'll get different results. Try it both ways. You might even end up with an EQ before the compressor AND after. You might also clear out some of the low mid buildup caused by your room. Try cutting the 200-300Hz range. And then, if you're liking that, try boosting 10k and above after the compressor to open them up a bit more. Be careful about that though, you don't want the drums to be unlistenably bright.

Those would be my recommendations.

Enjoy,

Mixerman
 
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i agree. The drums sound Quiet. But i also agree with mixerman. It's no the entire set. The bass and Snare should definitely jump out of the speakers and punch you in the face. i dont feel like they're doin that. it sounds like the drums were recorded very dry and reverb was thrown on to make them more ambient. so i can see both sides of the argument. im a beginner as well. which is why im on this site. but i would try turning up the snare and bass. and pan your overheads slight R&L, but keep the guitars in front of them.
 
Kind of a dead thread maybe at this point, but i think about the original question. . . a lot . . . and yes, I do compare my stuff to commercial stuff I like. My thinking is: whether I want to do what they're doing or not "artistically", I want to know how they're doing it, and learn how to do it myself (whatever "it" may be in a particular comparison). That way, I'll have that degree of freedom in my own stuff. Right now, I know there's this certain dimension of "Depth/Space/Whatever" that I simply can't tap into, because I don't know how. I think that is the spirit of the original question. Maybe it is a matter of equipment. If so, I'm doomed, because I can't afford it. On the other hand maybe it's a matter of skill/talent. That's developed through, pick your fraction 60/40, 70/30, 80/20 of "Do"/"Study" over however long a period it takes. Maybe I get there, maybe I don't. So, I like Muzza's question... Maybe I colored inside the lines too much as kid. I don't know, but "Just listen to your own stuff" doesn't make any sense to me.

I certainly don't claim to have the answers. I agree with MM's comment about the drums sounding ambient, at least in comparison to the guitars and that for this kind of music you need an aggressive (ie "close" kick and snare). The guitars I think sound more than a little too close. I'd also say that a missing "dimension" here might be performance dynamics. When I used to play in bands, one of the things we always talked about (and admired in the bands we knew were better than we were) was that everything went up and down. . . energy, emotion, volume, intensity... everything (except tempo ;) it's bad when that goes up and down). I'm not at all sure whether any of what I'm saying gets any closer to answering the question, but thanks for the thread!

J
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I think this is missing whatever "it" is too, but for FWIW, my "best yet"...

Beast of Burden - Mix5 - Jeff and Dylan - The Music Hutch
 
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I've managed to sort the drums out and now have a good thud from the kick and punch from the snare so thanks guy's for all the help!

Also I agree with jjjtttggg about the guitars being too close, I ran them through a cabinet emulator and have managed to make then sound less close mic'd :)

I definitely think we all need to listen to other people's stuff! How did we get into recording in the first place????? everyone must have a recording that sparked their interest to say 'wow that sound's great!, I wanna get that quality' I may be wrong though!

Muzza.
 
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