A
azraelswings
New member
How does one go about securing what they need to secure in order to legally sell a CD with a cover song on it?
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Rstiltskin
New member
this is all covered by law...and if you really want to do it right....
I would suggest going to the ascap site, and amazon.com. Get a couple books and maybe a 1 hour consultation with an entertainment lawyer.
there are many laws, and many exceptions, like for parody. you can also go the mechanical route.
laws in the eu are diffenent, so if you are thinking about any airplay there, you need to check that out. I think, for instance, that bach's descendants STILL own the copyright for his works performed over there. whereas here they can be proformed here with no payment. but a recording made here may not be sold over there without payment (I think).
If you are serious, don't take anyones word but an att. in this field. you can sue him if he's wrong.
azraelswings said:
I would suggest going to the ascap site, and amazon.com. Get a couple books and maybe a 1 hour consultation with an entertainment lawyer.
there are many laws, and many exceptions, like for parody. you can also go the mechanical route.
laws in the eu are diffenent, so if you are thinking about any airplay there, you need to check that out. I think, for instance, that bach's descendants STILL own the copyright for his works performed over there. whereas here they can be proformed here with no payment. but a recording made here may not be sold over there without payment (I think).
If you are serious, don't take anyones word but an att. in this field. you can sue him if he's wrong.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Good question!
There are lots of online resources that will answer this question.
Try:
http://www.cdbaby.net/dd?f=8
and
http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/music_copyright_law.html
&
http://www.vocalist.org.uk/recording_cover_songs.html
for starters.
If you search "cover version music copyright" on Google, you'll have almost endless links to the subject. So, without citing each individual link, I'd suggest you do that.
...
(If you don't mind me hijacking this thread for a moment):...
I have another twist to this common question.
How'bout copyright legalities about covering songs meant for "free" distribution? (online streaming/dl's & cd's/non-profit/free).
I've read up a lot on this issue, and it always strikes me as this:...
1) In the write ups and literature I've seen, "distribute" is used synonymously with "sell", and yet in the minority of cases (such as mine) that is not the case.
2) Any other literature I've read for clarification refers to outright "copying",... as in a straight-dub of copyrighted songs for filesharing.
... In each of the two cases, above, it doesn't seem to cover what I'm trying to find out.
3) In my case specifically, e'thing I've read seems to point to an exemption under the "fair use" clause, as follows:
[Example]: http://www.musiclibraryassoc.org/Copyright/perfq01.htm
... specifically to my question of "free/non-profit" distribution (online dl's & free cd's)
... is just a sampling of what you'll find on the web.
... Sorry if my question is off topic!
Thanx!!!
There are lots of online resources that will answer this question.
Try:
http://www.cdbaby.net/dd?f=8
and
http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/music_copyright_law.html
&
http://www.vocalist.org.uk/recording_cover_songs.html
for starters.
If you search "cover version music copyright" on Google, you'll have almost endless links to the subject. So, without citing each individual link, I'd suggest you do that.
...
(If you don't mind me hijacking this thread for a moment):...
I have another twist to this common question.
How'bout copyright legalities about covering songs meant for "free" distribution? (online streaming/dl's & cd's/non-profit/free).
I've read up a lot on this issue, and it always strikes me as this:...
1) In the write ups and literature I've seen, "distribute" is used synonymously with "sell", and yet in the minority of cases (such as mine) that is not the case.
2) Any other literature I've read for clarification refers to outright "copying",... as in a straight-dub of copyrighted songs for filesharing.
... In each of the two cases, above, it doesn't seem to cover what I'm trying to find out.
3) In my case specifically, e'thing I've read seems to point to an exemption under the "fair use" clause, as follows:
[Example]: http://www.musiclibraryassoc.org/Copyright/perfq01.htm
Music Library Assoc-Org - FAQ said:
... specifically to my question of "free/non-profit" distribution (online dl's & free cd's)
... is just a sampling of what you'll find on the web.
... Sorry if my question is off topic!
Thanx!!!
Last edited:
R
Rstiltskin
New member
you might check on how the shareware software and linux os licenses
are set up. this is another branch of copyright, but might shed some light, or it could well be I don't understand what you just said!
A Reel Person said:
are set up. this is another branch of copyright, but might shed some light, or it could well be I don't understand what you just said!
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Okay,...
Specifically,...
(Use of) Recording covers for fun, & giving free/non-profit access to said covers online (mp3 sites) and free/non-profit distribution of covers on cd's.
... seems to be covered under the "fair use" clause in copyright law.
...(by my reading of it, anyway!)
...
(Laws/restrictions on) copying/dubbing the original artist's recording straight from a commercial cd to distribute, and covering songs for "commercial" cd sales, is very clearly covered.
...(Which unfortunately is NOT what my question is pertaining to).
Sorry if I'm not being clear! I'm trying!
Thanx!
Specifically,...
(Use of) Recording covers for fun, & giving free/non-profit access to said covers online (mp3 sites) and free/non-profit distribution of covers on cd's.
... seems to be covered under the "fair use" clause in copyright law.
...(by my reading of it, anyway!)
...
(Laws/restrictions on) copying/dubbing the original artist's recording straight from a commercial cd to distribute, and covering songs for "commercial" cd sales, is very clearly covered.
...(Which unfortunately is NOT what my question is pertaining to).
Sorry if I'm not being clear! I'm trying!
Thanx!
R
Rstiltskin
New member
A Reel Person said:Specifically,...
(Use of) Recording covers for fun, & giving free/non-profit access to said covers online (mp3 sites) and free/non-profit distribution of covers on cd's.
... seems to be covered under the "fair use" clause in copyright law.
...(by my reading of it, anyway!)
...
(Laws/restrictions on) copying/dubbing the original artist's recording straight from a commercial cd to distribute, and covering songs for "commercial" cd sales, is very clearly covered.
...(Which unfortunately is NOT what my question is pertaining to).
Sorry if I'm not being clear! I'm trying!
Thanx!
I don't know.
I look at it like this, is what you want to do something that will deprive the copyright holder of any income? Is there ANY way this could cause ANYONE to use/listen to your product over the copyrighted product, whether YOU make any money off it or not. If there is, once the copyright holder becomes aware you will probably get a cease and desist order letter from their lawyer.
you could go till that happens, I guess. You got lots of assets?
most laws have a blanket clause somewhere that can be interpreted any way they want, anyway. like you can still get busted for selling FAKE drugs! never understood that.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Well, no.
I don't think anyone who's ever heard my stuff would say it's a substitute for, or a revenue drain off "official" works of music. However, they still are fun to listen to, and some people like them, depending who you ask. My covers have no commercial value, and don't overshadow or supercede the original.
I'm still looking into it, and I don't claim to be any sort of expert on the subject. All resources I've dug up say I should be covered by the "fair use" clause. However, proper licencing may be my best defense against having copyright issues used against me as a frivolous lawsuit or as a means of harassment.
I don't think anyone who's ever heard my stuff would say it's a substitute for, or a revenue drain off "official" works of music. However, they still are fun to listen to, and some people like them, depending who you ask. My covers have no commercial value, and don't overshadow or supercede the original.
I'm still looking into it, and I don't claim to be any sort of expert on the subject. All resources I've dug up say I should be covered by the "fair use" clause. However, proper licencing may be my best defense against having copyright issues used against me as a frivolous lawsuit or as a means of harassment.
R
Rstiltskin
New member
to file suit 'they' have to allege a tort (an injury done to them, by you)..
that is usually money. in other words, you could make a thousand copies of their lyrics without paying royalties, and be breaking the law, but if all you do is wipe your ass with them, where is the tort?
no injury, no damages. and you can bankrupt out of most judgements that are not because of negligence on your part. just agree to a million dollar judgement, then file bankruptcy, cost you about 1000.00 dollars for a simple one, and if you don't have a simple estate, WHY THE FUCK DON"T YOU TALK TO YOUR LAWYER ABOUT THIS?
A Reel Person said:
that is usually money. in other words, you could make a thousand copies of their lyrics without paying royalties, and be breaking the law, but if all you do is wipe your ass with them, where is the tort?
no injury, no damages. and you can bankrupt out of most judgements that are not because of negligence on your part. just agree to a million dollar judgement, then file bankruptcy, cost you about 1000.00 dollars for a simple one, and if you don't have a simple estate, WHY THE FUCK DON"T YOU TALK TO YOUR LAWYER ABOUT THIS?
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Yeah,... I think I understand the gist of your post.
I've always been of the thought, "no charge, no revenue, no damages, no case", and that worked pretty well for me,... until someone got the idea he'd grind out the copyright issue on me as a means of harassment, and as a way of leveraging me effectively on another grudge he was holding against me. He got my mp3 page of covers shut down, by having his lawyer friends write threatenting emails to the site . It was an underhanded, weasel tactic, for sure, and I'm trying to set things straight, since then.
Until that happened, there was never an issue. I mean, the Beatles, Bowie & the Ramones didn't sue me. It was someone who had a grudge against me on this bbs, who saw copyright as an easy target to leverage me, as a means of harassment, & to stir up shit. This is a lowlife insatiable troll of questionable sanity, who trolled and pursued me all over this bbs for weeks, until it spilled over to my mp3 site. Plain & simple.
Since then, I've been reading up on licencing, & the issues surrounding copright. I'd like to see my covers surface again legally. "Fair use" seems to cover it for me, but that's not adequate protection for the mp3 host.
I'm still talking about free downloads & free cd's containing covers. Nothing more.
And so, the research goes on.
I've always been of the thought, "no charge, no revenue, no damages, no case", and that worked pretty well for me,... until someone got the idea he'd grind out the copyright issue on me as a means of harassment, and as a way of leveraging me effectively on another grudge he was holding against me. He got my mp3 page of covers shut down, by having his lawyer friends write threatenting emails to the site . It was an underhanded, weasel tactic, for sure, and I'm trying to set things straight, since then.
Until that happened, there was never an issue. I mean, the Beatles, Bowie & the Ramones didn't sue me. It was someone who had a grudge against me on this bbs, who saw copyright as an easy target to leverage me, as a means of harassment, & to stir up shit. This is a lowlife insatiable troll of questionable sanity, who trolled and pursued me all over this bbs for weeks, until it spilled over to my mp3 site. Plain & simple.
Since then, I've been reading up on licencing, & the issues surrounding copright. I'd like to see my covers surface again legally. "Fair use" seems to cover it for me, but that's not adequate protection for the mp3 host.
I'm still talking about free downloads & free cd's containing covers. Nothing more.
And so, the research goes on.
tanlith
King of the Wicker People
This is what I believe you're looking for:
http://www.songfile.com
Here you can purchase the rights to everything from Abba to ZZ Top songs.
And if you have any major questions about copyright I'd check the following:
http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp
The Harry Fox Agency handles about 99% of all this type of stuff in the biz. If you need infor on it it'll be there on their site.
- Tanlith -
http://www.songfile.com
Here you can purchase the rights to everything from Abba to ZZ Top songs.
And if you have any major questions about copyright I'd check the following:
http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp
The Harry Fox Agency handles about 99% of all this type of stuff in the biz. If you need infor on it it'll be there on their site.
- Tanlith -
D
DeathKnell
New member
All these laws 
I'm quite big on parodying songs myself, sometimes there's artists who are just asking for it.
then again when i'm done with the songs they usually violate most rules associated with any censorship board.
I'm quite big on parodying songs myself, sometimes there's artists who are just asking for it.
then again when i'm done with the songs they usually violate most rules associated with any censorship board.
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
I checked those links out earlier, thanx.
Hey, it's your lucky day! Parody is covered under "fair use", and is not subject to the same restrictions as straight "covers".
Hey, it's your lucky day!
Parody is covered under "fair use", and is not subject to the same restrictions as straight "covers".
D
DeathKnell
New member
bahaha 
michael jackson better watch out.
the trial may be over, but my plethora of rehashed MJ dance classics with new and improved pedophilia inuendo will make him hoo hoo hoo chamona his ass back into isolation
michael jackson better watch out.
the trial may be over, but my plethora of rehashed MJ dance classics with new and improved pedophilia inuendo will make him hoo hoo hoo chamona his ass back into isolation
philboyd studge
New member
azraelswings said:
Harry Fox agency. http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp
It'll run you $35 to $75 per song per 1000 units.
A
azraelswings
New member
philboyd studge said:
Thanks a bunch. All and all that sounds rather reasonable.
philboyd studge
New member
azraelswings said:
Generally speaking, claim your run on the low side and pay the minimum you can......at least you're paying.
So many people sell their versions of covers without compensating the writers.
Tim Brown
New member
azraelswings said:
You have to pay $70 or so for every 1,000 copies you intend to sell for each cover song.
The payment goes to the Harry Fox.
Tim
Tim Brown
New member
philboyd studge said:
Beat me to it!
Hmm, it must have gone up. The last time I checked(because we werew goingto release a CD with a cover song) it was $70 per 1,000 units- which isn't crap.
Tim
A
azraelswings
New member
Tim Brown said:Beat me to it!
Hmm, it must have gone up. The last time I checked(because we werew goingto release a CD with a cover song) it was $70 per 1,000 units- which isn't crap.
Tim
It really isn't terribly much at all. If the band and I find a song that we can "make our own" I hope to release a CD with a cover. Pennies on the CD isn't much at all.
philboyd studge
New member
Tim Brown said:Beat me to it!
Hmm, it must have gone up. The last time I checked(because we werew goingto release a CD with a cover song) it was $70 per 1,000 units- which isn't crap.
Tim
I really don't know, I only sell my own material. However, I've done a lot of project albums for other people and they are almost always covers.....and to each client I spell out the legal obligation to pay for the material they are using. And I'll bet none of them have done so.