Could Bellari Tube Pres be a Darkhorse?

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chessrock

Banned
So just for shits and giggles, I was reading up on the design of the Bellari tube pres.

I was expecting it to be a cheapo starved-plate tewb design ala the ART Tube MP and some of the dbx models. Interestingly enough Bellari tube pres utilize a "Real" tube amp design. Better yet, they have a transformer-balanced input, with opamps at the output stage.

So why do they get dogged so much? My guess is they most likely use cheapo components. Seems to be all the rage these days.

So wouldn't it be perfectly feasable to just yank some of it's cheap parts and swap them with some good ones? If I'm not mistaken, possibly the most important components would be pretty easily and inexpensively replaced and upgraded, couldn't they? Replacing the opamps with burr-browns would be a pretty inexpensive investment. Getting your hands on a couple good sovtek tubes might be a few dollars more. A jensen transformer wouldn't be quite as cheap, but it certainly wouldn't break the bank, either.

A used Bellari two-channel would probably set you back about $300 off of ebay. The added components would probably come out to maybe $150. So all told, you might be looking at a high-quality dual-channel tube pre for $450. Not bad, especially considering that the next cheapest would be $700 for a Peavey VMP-2.

Thoughts?
 
Sounds like it might be worth a try - could be the beginning of a whole new line of business for you:
buy a bunch of cheap shit and then upgrade the hell out of it and resell it. You could call it:

"Chessrock's Hot-Rodded Former Pieces of Crap!":D
 
Not a bad idea, littledog, but Jim Williams (Audio Upgrades dude) I am not. :)

You're smart with this kind of stuff, littledog. Help me out here. Do you think something like this could be a worthwhile endeavor, of do you think it would be a big waste of time?
 
You have me confused with someone who is smart. Like Knightfly. PM him and ask him. Or try Barefoot if Knightfly doesn't pan out. Knightfly is smart, Barefoot is smart - I'm just a litle dog.
 
Chessrock:

Out of curiosity, do you know which dbx tube pres have the starved-plate design and which ones use the real tube amp design? I'm wondering because this dude I know wants to sell me four dbx mini pres for 50 bucks each.

I also tried some ART preamps at the store. The tube MP was so noisy I don't see how it got on the market. If one is into recording snow and white noise, this is the unit to get.

If your idea works on the Bellari, post a message for us so we can try it after you risk your money on it LOL

peace
jo
 
jo blo said:
I also tried some ART preamps at the store. The tube MP was so noisy I don't see how it got on the market. If one is into recording snow and white noise, this is the unit to get.
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The ART became popular because there wasn't a lot to choose from at the time it was introduced and it was affordable for people who weren't prepared to spend $500 to $2000 for a preamp. However, I don't think you (or the salesman) knew how to get a good sound out of the ART. I've heard too many quality recordings done with it to believe it's that noisy and unusable.
 
Wide Awake said:


The ART became popular because there wasn't a lot to choose from at the time it was introduced and it was affordable for people who weren't prepared to spend $500 to $2000 for a preamp. However, I don't think you (or the salesman) knew how to get a good sound out of the ART. I've heard too many quality recordings done with it to believe it's that noisy and unusable.
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I dunno, you may be right, but we got a pretty decent sound out of the next ART model up, a studio MP I believe. Noise is relative of course, and very subjective. I'm one of those guys who will spend hours worrying ovr the tiniest detail in a sound if there is anything I feel I can do to improve it. But maybe your assumption was right and I just don't know any better. The salesman probably knows more about his products than most would, and his small commercial studio certainly doesn't contain an ART pre, nor does my home studio. I'm very interested in seeing if our friend Chessrock decides to go for broke and open up a Bellari for a little solder surgery. Pres are important to all recording, especially to those who have chosen our VS path, because I definitely feel that the ones we have been saddled with are less than what we would hope for in a perfect world.

peace
jo
 
Jo Blo,

I believe all of dbx's silver series, including the mini-pre, are a hybrid solid state / tube design.

All of the ARTs I believe are the same, including the tube mp and the pro mpa.

The reason there is so much debate about the design is that, supposedly, it isn't ideal for all microphones and situations, hence all the varied results and opinions you see. It is, however, a valid design, and as such is worthy of consideration as an "effect box" just as a stomp box could be considered an effect or another useful color to have in your arsenal.

I got a hold of some info. from R.A.P. about some of the modifications I spoke of. Looks like I'm not the first person to have this idea regarding the Bellari:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=b...elm=35d4e98d.1534596@news.pipeline.com&rnum=3

If anyone out there feels they have adequate chops to dig in to such a mod, I'd be happy to supply the preamp as well as all the necessary replacement parts. In return for your electrical and soldering expertise, you would gain the satisfaction of knowing that you contributed to a highly-relevant, breakthrough scientific endeavor that could help further the plight of the financially challenged here at homerecording.com :) Sadly, though, I would want the pre back at some point.

PM me if interested.
 
Chessrock,

Kind of gratifying to see that your idea has already been proven to net good results, no? That's exciting news, thanks for the link. Although I am the owner of a few decent soldering irons and guns, I'm not the tech to tackle that task. However, I know a fellow here in my town who may be interested in doing this. He is quite the craftsman when it comes to things electronic, not to mention a topnotch guitar repairman/customizer. He does both these things for a living and as a hobby, and he has a nice little commercial studio as well. What say I approach him about this and see where it leads?

BTW I agree about the inexpensive tube pre issue. As I mentioned in my first post, noise (or any sound) is relative to the context and subjective, so there is no right or wrong answer. Gawd a'mighty, I knew a guy who would plug an extra cord into his amp in the #2 input, and then touch the open jack on the floor with his bare foot while he played his guitar through input #1. Although it sounded like hammered shyte to us, it apparently made him happy:)

peace
jo
 
I love this kind of stuff! If anybody were to post a picture showing the mods and whre the parts go on the board, I'd give it a try. By the way, which Bellari model was it that got modded? I've seen 'em going for cheap at GC.

Chessrock--see--this could be the last stage of the behringer/BBE/art tube MP chain! Real tubes! Real knobs! Does the Bellari have an exciter on it> We could TRIPLE excite the mixes! I'm sure thats what the real mastering pros do, isn't it? :D
 
crawdad said:
I love this kind of stuff! If anybody were to post a picture showing the mods and whre the parts go on the board, I'd give it a try. By the way, which Bellari model was it that got modded? I've seen 'em going for cheap at GC.

Chessrock--see--this could be the last stage of the behringer/BBE/art tube MP chain! Real tubes! Real knobs! Does the Bellari have an exciter on it> We could TRIPLE excite the mixes! I'm sure thats what the real mastering pros do, isn't it? :D
Click to expand...

LMAO! That would be kewl. Seriously, though, I think your Bellari comment might have spawned something here.

Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to get any pictures or anything like that.

It's this one, by the way:

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/love.music?p=p.BELRP220&z=1418572283460

It's pretty easy to find them used for less than $300.

I like to talk a good game, but when it comes down to it, I don't know if my method will work as smoothly as I expect it to or not. I would just gather the necessary parts, open the thing up, and start swapping away. I think I pretty much know what the tube looks like. :) I'm not sure exactly what an opamp would look like (isn't it just an Integrated Circuit?), but I know which one to order, so I'd just look for whatever looks like it could be replaced by the burr-brown. :) Then I'd yank the transfomrer and put the jensen in it's place. I know the trannie would be at the input, so I at least know the general area to look for that.

Someone please stop me from doint serious harm. Wanna' take a stab at it, Crawdad? I won't hold you responsible if you blow it up or anything. :)
 
Hell, I'd be afraid to try any of that hot rod mechanic-ing myself. I'd hook something to the wrong thing inside the comp and it would suck my lips through the microphone or something.

Chessrock:
I dropped an email to the tech dude here in town. I sent him the link you posted. Maybe I'll hear something shortly. If it worked for those guys it will work for us too. I'm pretty pumped about hearing one of those after the mods.
 
jo blo said:
I'm pretty pumped about hearing one of those after the mods.
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Actually, what I was thinking is we could do just one channel, and then post some clips comparing the moded channel with the unmoded channel and see what we come up with. Then maybe do the other channel, too, if we feel like it?
 
I think that's a good idea. It'll be good to be able to A/B the two. Also a little less invested in case the results are less than what we had hoped for.
 
awww man, i was hopin for vu meters

and how would you know which tube to use?

you would use just burr browns, since it appears they only make one thing?

and the Jenson JT-10K61-1M Transformer?
 
chessrock said:


Wanna' take a stab at it, Crawdad? I won't hold you responsible if you blow it up or anything. :)
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I think that sending it to the tech that did the previously mentioned mods would be a much better route! I can do the soldering and stuff if I know what it is I am supposed to change, but I'm an electronics idiot. Looking at a circuit board is useless for me.

I do know you'd probably put sockets in for the Burr/Brown chips, so you don't kill them with heat while putting them in. I know what caps, electrolytics and resistors are, but I'm afraid I'd be lost without a roadmap. i did a Tubescreamer 808 mod once, but just because I had a picture saying 'do this, change that."

Really, what you want is a cascaded tube exciter unit, where three stages of tubes all excite then pass the signal on to the next stage. Then, the signal is not only in your face, its crawling inside your ear! I'm pretty sure thats what they mean by the vintage sound. Maybe they add a bunch of comps and tube modules after they excite it three times. Of course, that might dull the sheen of the mix, which would require another run through the 3 tube exciter. Thats where the acoustic trans-modifier would come in handy--either at the beginning or end of the chain--maybe both. In the middle, one of those Dolby A modules will increase perceived high end content too. Make sure to run that through four stages of Tube MP or two Bellaris--preferably the modded ones! Thats how they did it 'back in the old days!" :D
 
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