Converting a light bulb socket into a grounded outlet?

  • Thread starter Thread starter pdadda
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pdadda

pdadda

Captain Sea Boots
My band is getting booted out of my basement, so we have to practice in a storage place for now. We found one that allows bands, but they don't have electrical outlets. The manager presented 2 options:
1. They could have someone come out and wire up an outlet. This would increase our monthly rate by $50, and we would have to sign a 6 month contract. One of my other bandmates will be in a new place where we can practice in June, so I am hoping to avoid contracts.
2. The room has a light bulb socket. He said we could put in a converter and not pay any more money. Is this safe? I have a converter I use for my porch that turns a light socket into a 2 prong outlet, but I am pretty sure we should use a grounded outlet.
Any suggestions on what to do?
 
You absolutely should use a grounded outlet for amps, mixers, et al. No exceptions.

However, by law the light fixture must be grounded, so using a flashlight, you can replace the light socket with a ceramic fixture that has a socket, as well as a three prong outlet. lowes sells these for about $20. Much cheaper than paying $50 a month unitl June.
 
I daresay that the light socket uses a wall switch. Just wire your socket off of that. Black to black (hot), white to white (neutral... something of a misnomer if you ask me), and green to green (ground). Alternately, if the building does not have a ground wire (and it happens) just borrow a hammer drill, pop for a masonery bit, pop a whole through the slab and pound in a grounding rod from Home Depot. Wire your green to that.

Note that you most likely will only be able to pull fifteen amps off of that circuit.

Luck.
 
Thanks for the input. Sorry, no wall lightswitch. Just a pull string. I'm a bit leary to drill into the place, as I am quite certain that is against the rules there. I'll check out that ceramic unit frederic. I want to be able to return it to how it was when I leave the place. Only 15 amps huh? That will be a problem.
 
pdadda said:
Thanks for the input. Sorry, no wall lightswitch. Just a pull string. I'm a bit leary to drill into the place, as I am quite certain that is against the rules there. I'll check out that ceramic unit frederic. I want to be able to return it to how it was when I leave the place. Only 15 amps huh? That will be a problem.

This is a storage space? You probably share a 20A breaker with four, six, or eight units.

If there's a light on the ceiling now, there is a metal box behind it with three wires, black, white and green. If there is no green, the metal box is the ground. Anyway, the ceramic fixture is as cheap as they come, gives you an outlet, and is easily replaced with the old fixture when you leave.

Or you could just leave it there if its similar enough to the original lightswitch.
 
Be EXTREMELY careful with this one - if there is only a pull string, then that socket is ALWAYS LIVE, and you will be working with live wires. Either see if you can find where this circuit is fed from and TURN IT OFF AT THE BREAKER, or hire an electrician, or FORGET IT.

This can give new meaning to "Death Metal"... Steve
 
knightfly said:
wires. Either see if you can find where this circuit is fed from and TURN IT OFF AT THE BREAKER, or hire an electrician, or FORGET IT.

This can give new meaning to "Death Metal"... Steve

Or do what all electricians do - wear leather work gloves and sneakers and make sure the floor isn't wet.
 
Headline: "Band member who wanted amps up to 11 gets juiced"

:-)

If you don't know what you're doing with electricity, DONT TOUCH IT!

Or at least sign us up as beneficiaries to your life insurance policy....
 
Of course, and agreed.

However, I do have to say working with electricity isn't difficult at all. Black wires, white wires, and green wires, with some basic safety and you can do almost anything required in a house.

Installing sub-panels with seperate grounds is more complicated, or isolation transformers, or mains fail-overs to a generator, sure.

But swapping outlets, switches and the like, anyone with a flathead screwdriver and some patience can do no problem. That's all I was trying to say.

If he doesn't want to do it himself, instead of hiring an electrician for $75, hire a "handyman". Cost will be about half. Its just a light socket...
 
, white to white (neutral... something of a misnomer if you ask me)
Ah yes, the good ole neutral "misnomer". Did you question "neutral current" too? This one still baffles me to an extent, at least how AC current "supposedly" changes polarity 60 times a second :confused: DON"T GO THERE STEVE!! :D It won't do anygood. Old farts on batterys can't change thier "polarity". Ha! :p
fitZ
 
, white to white (neutral... something of a misnomer if you ask me)
Ah yes, the good ole neutral "misnomer". Did you question "neutral current" too? This one still baffles me to an extent, at least how AC current "supposedly" changes polarity 60 times a second :confused: DON"T GO THERE STEVE!! :D It won't do anygood. Old farts on batterys can't change thier "polarity". Ha! :p
fitZ

PS. I went this far with it. Follow and read the links to the "Neuman Machine". Unfreakinbeliveable. Especially the patent court hearings.
http://searcht.netscape.com/ns/boom..._url=http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/NMac1201.htm
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Ah yes, the good ole neutral "misnomer". Did you question "neutral current" too? This one still baffles me to an extent, at least how AC current "supposedly" changes polarity 60 times a second :confused: DON"T GO THERE STEVE!! :D It won't do anygood. Old farts on batterys can't change thier "polarity". Ha! :p
fitZ

It's called neutral because if you touch it (and ground) you won't die, assuming the system is wired correctly.

In most residential wiring, neutral is wired to ground, thus "safe".
 
I understand that frederic. What I DON"T understand yet, is IF alternating "current" flows from positive to negative 60 times a second, and it does flow, then when it "alternates", that tells me the current "flows the opposite direction" 60 times a second also. Although lots of people tell me there is NO current flow from neutral to positive when the polarity changes. IF NOT then why do they call it alternating "CURRENT"? If current DOESN"T flow through the neutral leg, then how can you get electrocuted if YOU become a conductor between positive and neutral(grounded)? Thats what I don't understand. Yea, Steve gave me an analogy, but according to the link, NEUTRAL CURRENT DOES EXIST. :)
fitZ
 
Alternating current is really DC that reverses polarity 60 times a second in this case:

30 times a second, hot is +, neutral/ground is -.
30 tmes a second, hot is -, neutral/ground is +.

However, what kills you is the current across your body, not the voltage polarity. You're body reacts the same whether your feet are positive and your hands negative, or the reverse.

This is why people often survive lightning strikes to their bald head (millions of volts), yet die while welding (20V, 120A).

Anyway...

You're confusing the concept of "Ground". In DC circuits, "ground" generally just means "shared negative voltage buss", which is often the chassis of the radio, or whatever. In Jaguars, for example, "ground" is "positive battery potential". Yet, its still ground.

In power AC circuits, ground is earth - the planet all your stuff sticks to via gravity.

That's why in DC circuits there are two ground symbols, one for earth, one for chassis.

Maybe this will help... alternating current flips between scenario 1 and 2, as the current's polarity alternates many times a second.

Scenario 1:

HOT (+) -----------> your left hand
NEUTRAL (-) -------> your right hand
Ground (-) ---------> your feet

Scenario 2:

HOT (-) -----------> your left hand
NEUTRAL (+) -------> your right hand
Ground (+) ---------> your feet

In both scenarios, regardless of polarity, the voltage potential (delta) between your right hand and your feet should be zero. And you can measure this with a voltmeter right at the breaker box.

The voltage potential (delta) between hot and neutral is 120V, and between hot and ground is 120V, so touching hot and either (or both) of the other two lines can kill you.

Note that the voltage doesn't kill you, its the current that goes through your body that does. If you're healthy, your body can survive a million volts at 1/10th milliamp no problem. And 1 volt at 100A will turn you into an "extra crispy" speciman.

If you were to measure this at your breaker box, you should see 120V AC between Hot and Neutral, and Hot and Ground. And 0V between neutral and ground.

Polarity is irrelevent, its voltage delta. Your body doesn't like electricity going through it whether your hands are positive and your feet negative, or the reverse.

----------

Now a side comment relating to recording. If you attach your volt meter between neutral and ground at the breaker box, you should see zero volts AC.

However, further down the wires (at the outlets in your studio), you might actually see some voltage. THIS is what causes hum in audio gear.

HOT ------------ small wire resistance -------------- \
Neutral --------- small wire resistance -------------- - outlet
Ground --------- small wire resistance -------------- /


Different lengths of wire, introduces different amounts of resistance, which in turn, creates different neutral-ground potentials, an in turn, adds to the hum problem.

In fact, every wire nut you add between your outlets and your breaker box, adds to the resistance a very tiny amount - and in turn, allows for more hum.
 
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sorry I jumped around a lot and repeated myself a few times, I was trying to edit the post over and over while eliminating my usual stream of conscienceness, but I give up. If anything is unclear, hollar back, I'd be more than happy to take another crack at explaination.
 
So if I go ahead and get that ceramic thing, what do you think the chances are that I will have enough juice to run my gear? For practice, we'll be running 2 guitar amps, 1 bass amp, and one amp/speaker combo for vocals.
 
If you use a screw-in light socket adapter, you won't have a separate ground since light bulb sockets only have two connections - hot and neutral.

As far as circuit capacity, it's going to be connected to either a 15-amp or 20-amp circuit, which means you shouldn't load it more than 12 amps or 16 amps or so. (12 amps = 1440 watts, 16 amps = 1920 watts) This includes everything else that happens to be on the same circuit - lights in other storage spaces, etc. If everyone else turns their lights off, this could be negligible.

You can add up the wattages listed on your equipment to figure out where you stand. Most of the time an amp isn't going to be drawing full wattage anyway.
 
Forgive my ignorance. Could I use the screw in adapter, and then use a 2->3prong adapter if I attach a wire from the tab on the 3 prong adapter to the overhead cable? If so, what kind of wire can I use?
 
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If you take the light out and replace it with a socket?

How are you going to see in the dark?

:confused:

Wish
 
pdadda said:
Forgive my ignorance. Could I use the screw in adapter, and then use a 2->3prong adapter if I attach a wire from the tab on the 3 prong adapter to the overhead cable? If so, what kind of wire can I use?

In theory, you could attach the tab to the ground wire in the junction box above the light but don't do it anyway, as it would violate the electrical code and in the event you wired it incorrectly, could be dangerous.

Your best bet would be to operate without a ground, using the aforementioned 2-3 prong adapter. The ground wire is really a safety issue...it's presence in the circuit causes the circuit breaker/fuse to trip if a piece of your equipment shorts out. I can't speak for your equipment, but generally speaking, that doesn't happen too often
 
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