Control room window

K

KarnEvil

New member
I want to build a window with good sound isolation for my new control room. What would be a good way to do it without burning a hole in my wallet? :) The wall I'm installing this window in is going to be a double studded type, so I have some depth to work with as far as using multiple window panes.

Thanks!
 
ok. theres a few points to cover.

- about the size:
my glass is 80 x 50 cm. just enough to see inside, if you made it to big compare it to the room, theres gona be a lot of reverberation.

- where to make the hole.
* put it in a place where it can aford with your computer monitor.
* put it high, to see over the drumkit the drumplayer. use a high chair.

- how to do it.
* it has to be double.
* it has to be like \\. <- this side of the window has to be pointing to the ceilling in the live sound room.
* this side -> \\ to the control room.

- inclination of the window. (\\)
* theres a formula to know the inclination, but I dont know how to say it in english... :confused:
it is about the triangle and the hypotenuse; the formula to know the hypotenuse...

-use all the sillicon need it to avoid any kind of weird sounds of rumbles.

-frame of wood.

(theres a thread about this already about two or three months ago, search it.)





[Edited by Proveras on 08-29-2000 at 09:32]
 
Proveras,
Are you absolutely sure about the angles of the peices of glass? I too am putting a window in my control room wall, much bigger than yours though. Mine is about 3.5 by 6 feet. That's about 1 by 2 meters. I've read SO many conflicting things about the angle of windows. I've never seen anything like what you showed. I've read that if you angle the glass, only to angle one peice and not both.
I'd like to hear from somebody who has put a large window in. Just to let you know, my control room wall is about 2 feet thick.
 
well,
I am sure about that there is a formula to let you know how much inclination you have to do in your glass.

it is the pitagora's formula about the catetos, something like a2+b2=hypotenuse or somethig; an enginner of an important studio help me with it, and if you want to put a big window, better look for some pro help about it.

about the size: in my school, the room has a big glass, I think a little more biger then yours and it sound like crap! all the room is wealthy with that thing for the beds:

^^^^^^^^ lot of reflections, reverberation, "the window is to big for that room".

I don`t like big windows, but in the mix magazine photos of pro studios, there are some windows about 3 mts large and only 50 cms high, maybe it can work for you, but remember that they have big live sound rooms...

[______] <-something like these.

about the sides: theres has to be some distance between the TWO glasses search about isolation: http://homerecording.about.com/musicperform/homerecording/msub19.htm

in my control room I preffer this inclination ->\\ then
this ->[\, because the wall behind me is to close to the window and these way I can prevent some reflections of the monitors.

ps. excuse me with my english, I speak spanish.
 
Your English is most excellent! :) I understood every word you said...er....wrote! Mi hablo espanol un poquito!
 
What about a forum in spanish? ...mmm I don't think so.

orale!
que a toda madre que entiendas lo que escribo, ojala tambien este correcto y les sirva a todos! :p

viva México cabrones!!!!

parangaricutirimicuaro. :D
 
Proveras said:
well,
I am sure about that there is a formula to let you know how much inclination you have to do in your glass.

it is the pitagora's formula about the catetos, something like a2+b2=hypotenuse or somethig; an enginner of an important studio help me with it, and if you want to put a big window, better look for some pro help about it.

about the size: in my school, the room has a big glass, I think a little more biger then yours and it sound like crap! all the room is wealthy with that thing for the beds:

^^^^^^^^ lot of reflections, reverberation, "the window is to big for that room".

I don`t like big windows, but in the mix magazine photos of pro studios, there are some windows about 3 mts large and only 50 cms high, maybe it can work for you, but remember that they have big live sound rooms...

[______] <-something like these.

about the sides: theres has to be some distance between the TWO glasses search about isolation: http://homerecording.about.com/musicperform/homerecording/msub19.htm

in my control room I preffer this inclination ->\\ then
this ->[\, because the wall behind me is to close to the window and these way I can prevent some reflections of the monitors.

ps. excuse me with my english, I speak spanish.
Click to expand...

Our live room is pretty big. It's about 29 long by 16 feet wide(9 meters by 5.5 meters). The drums are primarily going to be recorded in the live room only, and they're on the opposite side of the live room from the control room. So the drums are about 25 feet (8 meters) away from the control room.
You said there needs to be some isolation between the TWO peices of glass like I didn't know you need two peices and isolation :) We're going to get REALLY thick glass and we'll have roughly 2 feet (a little less than a meter) in between the two peices.
I just want to know if I'm going to be able to stop the sound of the drums. The ONLY weak spot on the control room wall is the window. Since it goes like this... 2 layers of 1/2" drywall mounted on resilient channel... 2 layers of 1/2" particle wood, another layer of 3/4" on top of that... 2X4 stud wall w/ insulation... 2 layers of 1/2 drywall. Auralex 2" Studio Foam in between two walls... 2 layers of 1/2 drywall... 2X4 stud wall w/insulation... 4 layers of 3/4" particle wood... 2 layers of 1/2" drywall mounted on resilient channel. So that adds up to 22.5 inches, just under 2 feet. So if we can get REALLY thick glass is is going to stop the sound from the live room?
 
What about using plexi-glass instead of glass? It's easier to handle and maybe cheaper(?).

thanks for the replies!

KarnEvil
 
Hey Brian.....

Can you say OVERKILL????

Holy crap, man...I thought I went overboard on our studio walls.

Next time keep in mind that the STC rating of a room is only going to be as good as the weakest part of the room.

In your case, as in most, that will be the window and
door(s). The STC you have acheived with your 7 foot thick super-wall is great. The problem is that it's all done in vein if you put a window and door in which will have an inherently lower STC rating. Many of the studio-construction and design books talk about this...planning your desired STC ahead of time so precious time and money isn't wasted in overbuilding.

I guess the good news is you've now got one hell of a fire wall!

Happy Recording.

Nate
 
GREAT LIVE SOUND ROOM!!!

wow, I want a room like yours, BIG enough!!

well, IMHO (in my "little or something" opinion) get the thicknes glass you can.
I get mine from a clothes store in bankrupt. a very thick glass to prevent of thiefs. A friend give it to me.

use enough silicon to prevent roumbles in the window.

IMHO(again) I preffer a window like the one I said before:

[___l___l___] <-- you can get 2 or 3 pairs of rectangles

of glass, and make the frame or frames of wood. give the job to a cheap carpenter and tell him use big screws and yellow glue. (NO RUMBLES!!!)

I think large rectangles are better then big squares.

no relfection of the glass, use your big wall to give it more or the necesary inclination to it. point it to the ceilling.

- about the isolation, it HAS to work!!!
 
Nate Tyler said:
Hey Brian.....

Can you say OVERKILL????

Holy crap, man...I thought I went overboard on our studio walls.

Next time keep in mind that the STC rating of a room is only going to be as good as the weakest part of the room.

In your case, as in most, that will be the window and
door(s). The STC you have acheived with your 7 foot thick super-wall is great. The problem is that it's all done in vein if you put a window and door in which will have an inherently lower STC rating. Many of the studio-construction and design books talk about this...planning your desired STC ahead of time so precious time and money isn't wasted in overbuilding.

I guess the good news is you've now got one hell of a fire wall!

Happy Recording.

Nate
Click to expand...

Well unfortunately when I started construction 6 months ago I knew very little about this stuff. If I would have known I would have to get 1 inch thick glass to stop the sound I would have made a smaller window, but this is what we have to work with now and we have to make the best out of it. And building the wall 2 feet thick will not be in vein BECAUSE then the window is the ONLY week part. If I get thick enough glass and decouple it properly from the sill I know I can stop the sound. As for my doors letting sound through, they're going to let as much sound through as the walls since we're making them as thick as the walls they're in. Something you have to realize is that there's no such thing as overkill.
As for wasting precious money, we havn't spent a dime on particle wood, we've gotten it all for free, and it's GOOD wood, just free.
And I know ALL about caulking and gasketing and sealing and decoupling, so when replying just assume everything is perfectly sealed so we can work on just the glass.

I'm just looking for people to reply who have done this with big windows. And please don't tell me it's stupid to make them so big and stop sound, look at the proffesional studios, they have huge windows. The band room at my high school had a HUGE window in an iso room and you couldn't hear a thing through it. Before starting construction I looked at hundreds of pictures of studios to get ideas.
 
Brian,

I think you misunderstood my post.

Go back and read it again.

In our studio, we have two windows off the control room...one is 4x7 looking to the large tracking room and adjacent isos, and one is 3x3 looking to the adjacent vocal iso.

There's nothing wrong with big windows...that's not what I said.

What I said was that the STC of your room will only be as good as the weakest part of the room.

The old analogy "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link."

You can build a wall with an STC of 60, and then, even if you put a killer window configuration in (say...two panes, one 3/4" and another 1/2" tempered, large air space between,both isolated from the frame and properly sealed), you'll still only get the net STC of your window for the room. Hence the "weak link in the chain." If your window STC is only 50 (which is still actually quite good), then the rest of your super wall was done in vein.

The doors are another issue altogether. Same idea. They must be built to at least the same level as the rest of your room or they will be its weakness.

Bottom line, my point was about STCs, and planning for what you want your end result to be. Then, based on your plan, you can avoid overbuilding walls in rooms that will be limited to the efficiency of it's windows and doors.

You can look at an STC chart found in many Studio books and websites to get an idea of what STC rating different building materials and wall designs will give you.

But always plan around your weak link...or your wasting precious mula.
 
hey Nate: do you know the links?:

quote:
You can look at an STC chart found in many Studio books and websites.

I am always searching for educational websites. if you know the link for this and other important info or tips, please write them. thanx.

STC, I understand what are you trying to say, but what it means?
 
Check this out Karnevil

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Cheers
John :D
 
nice pic John! thanks!

What's the general consensous on glass thickness? I decided on a 24 inch high by 36 inch wide window. The local home remodeling and hardware stores don't seem to have super thick glass. The thickest I've seen so far is 3/16 to 1/4 inch thick. Is that good enough? What about sandwiching a couple of thin glass sheets together?

thanks for all of the replies!
 
just make sure the glass is different in each window like 3/16 and 1/4 would be fine. The thicker the better but hey we'd all like an SSL!
cheers
John
 
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