Contractor Problems - Is This Normal

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cybermonsters

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I've had a commercial studio for 15 years and we just got a new 3,000 sq ft facility for our new studio. We moved in four months ago and the contractor said everything should be done in a couple weeks.

That was before I found out about needing city permits, draftsperson and engineering. I got our plans back last week from the city with over three pages of corrections. One of the corrections was that NO ELECTRICITY WAS PLOTTED.

The contractor made me find my own engineer and says the engineer should have caught the mistakes. The engineer says the contractor should have specified. Everyone's passing the buck.

Bottom line, isn't a contractor supposed to take care of all the details from your overall plans? When I produce an album, I expect that I am responsible for the entire process to run smoothly to completion. I take responsibility even for the tuning of band member's instruments.

The contractor is trading me time because his crew is in a band I've recorded before. He IS a full time contractor and licensed, but maybe I should just step up to the plate and put out the cash for a new crew.

Questions and insight would be appreciated,

Frustrated in California,
 
Well, normally:
The contractor is there to build your facility from a set of plans and specifications prepared by an architect or engineer.

Now, sometimes contractors will be called in by an architect, engineer, or designer for consultation. This can be invaluable, as a designer doesn;t want to design something that can't be built, or at least can't built cheaper, and an architect/engineer doesn't want to specify something that is difficult to get.

So it really depends on the contract you have with these people.

I'm a professional engineer myself, and 3 pages of comments is not out of the norm in my neck of the woods for a set of Civil, Mech, Elec, Plumbing, and Landscape plans.

Call a meeting. Have all the disciplains attend. Go through the comments one-by-one, and determine who is responsible for addressing each and every comment you recieved.
Get a time-line for resubmittal, and follow up on the next review.
 
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Construction hasn't started yet, we need to fix the revisions given to us by the city on our plans before we begin construction. We already have certificate of occupancy and business license, the studio is being built inside of an existing warehouse.

The engineer I hired is a PE civil engineer.
 
cybermonsters said:
Perhaps I wasn't clear. Construction hasn't started yet, we need to fix the revisions given to us by the city on our plans before we begin construction. We already have certificate of occupancy and business license, the studio is being built inside of an existing warehouse.

The engineer I hired is a PE civil engineer.
Click to expand...

Engineers are not supposed to perform work outside of their liscense.

A civil engineer cannot (legally) stamp electrical - mechanical - plumbing - structural or architectural drawings.

You should be the person hiring the design team, they should be working for YOU protecting YOUR INTERESTS.

You need an architect, mechanical and electrical engineers as well as an acoustic consultant.

All design should be firmly in place before you even consider construction.

The contractor should then just work from those plans.

Based on what you're describing - it doesn't suprise me to hear what I'm hearing.

Rod
 
"I've had a commercial studio for 15 years and we just got a new 3,000 sq ft facility for our new studio. We moved in four months ago and the contractor said everything should be done in a couple weeks."

Yup, I'd say that wasn't very clear.

I think we have found the root of the problem.
 
Rod, that's not exactly true.
In California, a Civil engineer can provide designs for a structure up to 3 stories. This is because of the siesmic portion of the California PE exam for civil engineers.
 
With whom do you have a written contract? And what does it say?
 
Michael Jones said:
Rod, that's not exactly true.
In California, a Civil engineer can provide designs for a structure up to 3 stories. This is because of the siesmic portion of the California PE exam for civil engineers.
Click to expand...

Well Michael,

In accordance with the Professional Engineers Act of California, effective Jan 1, 2004........

Section 6731 limits Civil Engineering to (in relation to buildings) design from the foundation down and wood frame structures (or simplar in nature to) but then again - I can move to Cali and do that for basement and 2 stories without any liscense.

Here is the exact verbiage from the Statute defining civil engineer:

6731. Civil engineering defined
Civil engineering embraces the following studies or activities in connection with fixed works for irrigation, drainage, waterpower, water supply, flood control, inland waterways, harbors, municipal improvements, railroads, highways, tunnels, airports and airways, purification of water, sewerage, refuse disposal, foundations, grading, framed and homogeneous structures,
buildings, or bridges:
(a) The economics of, the use and design of, materials of construction and the
determination of their physical qualities.
(b) The supervision of the construction of engineering structures.
(c) The investigation of the laws, phenomena and forces of nature.
(d) Appraisals or valuations.
(e) The preparation or submission of designs, plans and specifications and engineering reports.
(f) Coordination of the work of professional, technical, or special consultants.
(g) Creation, preparation, or modification of electronic or computerized data in the performance of the activities described in subdivisions (a) through (f).
Civil engineering also includes city and regional planning insofar as any of the above features are concerned therein.
Civil engineers registered prior to January 1, 1982, shall be authorized to practice all land surveying as defined in Chapter 15 (commencing with Section 8700) of Division 3.
[NOTE: The last registration number issued to a civil engineer registered before January 1, 1982 was 33,965.]

6731.1. Civil engineering; additional authority
Civil engineering also includes the practice or offer to practice, either in a public or private capacity, all of the following:
(a) Locates, relocates, establishes, reestablishes, or retraces the alignment or elevation for any of the fixed works embraced within the practice of civil engineering, as described in Section 6731.
(b) Determines the configuration or contour of the earth’s surface or the position of fixed objects thereon or related thereto, by means of measuring lines and angles, and applying the principles of trigonometry or hotogrammetry.
(c) Creates, prepares, or modifies electronic or computerized data in the performance of the activities described in subdivisions (a) and (b).
Click to expand...

Framed Buildings are no big deal - ANYONE can develop plans for those,


In order to practice structural engineering you must first become a liscensed civil engineer and THEN become certified as a structural engineer...... this in accordance with Section 6736 entitled "Title of Structural Engineer" which states:

"No Person shall use the title "structural engineer", unless he is a registered civil engineer in this State and, furthermore, unless he has been found qualified as a structural engineer according to the rules and regulations established therefor by the board."


Not quite the same, if he is a Civil Engineer - he is limited in his duties, if he is a civil engineer CERTIFIED as a structural engineer then it is a different story altogether.

But he still cannot cross the lines, he can't perfom EE design, or MEP - you need professionals liscensed for those diciplines. Apparently that was one of the issues raised according to the original post (and the point I was trying to make)

Sincerely,

Rod
 
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Cyber.....Rod is correct.... a ? ...were you the designated "GC" if not ...then ...Who ?
That'a where the responsibility lie's
Jack Piercy
Acoustech
 
Well, this is a good example of what Architects are for. The Architect would act as the coordinator of all the other engineering disciplines and act as your representative with the general contractor, supervising the competitive bidding process if that is the way you want to go. Yeah they mean that one more professional needs to get paid, But they do indeed serve a purpose.
 
Innovations is right. You should have hired an architect first, but at the same time, if the contractor would have been reputable to begin with, he would have laid out the electrical plan on his own; per local codes. Then he would have (should have) "subbed" it out to a licensed electrician. And it all would have been legal.

Don't kick yourself too much though... this kind of crap happens all too often.
 
Update: Our "contractor" is no where to be found. The civil engineer will only sign off on the construction, not electrical, air conditioning or fire sprinklers. He says the contractor should have done that. The draftsperson blames the engineer.

Here's what I think:
I was given bad info originally by the contractor. He should have referred me to an architect/engineer firm that could do everything in one place. Because I had everything engineered to be modular, I haven't found a contractor to even quote me. I've had about 10 contractors on site for bids, no one has even given me a bid.

Today I've started looking at portable pre-fab buildings. My understanding is these companies do the engineering and construction for you, and it's build to be portable.

This has been a terrible hit for my company. We've been down now for five months. Our studio is fairly well known. I wouldn't be surprised if most of you have hit our studio site at one time or another.

I'm embarrassed and frustrated. I'll let you know how I get along with the pre-fab route.

Along the way I could have been saved all this wasted time if either the contractor or engineer had led me in the right direction.

Moral: No one cares as much about your business as you do.
 
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