Continuing the sound card discussion

dachay2tnr said:
I *think* Qwerty uses the aardvark Q10. Maybe send him a PM if he doesn't drop by this thread.
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Nope - still licking the screen when I pull up the Aardvark webpage for the Q10...

I am running the lower-end Direct Pro 24/96 - about half the grunt of the Q10 - 4in's and outs as opposed to 8.

The downsides of the Aardvark story are -

=> Slow driver development, but what they have has always done the advertised job for me or it has been fixed very quickly.

=> They do not have a true WDM driver architecture, rather they use their own proprietary modifications to the schema which they call A|WDM. In versions of Sonar prior to v3.xx, they recommended setting the driver mode as MME which would then address the A|WDM driver architecture. Using this, I could get my latency into the sub 5msec range.

=> They seem to now be moving towards the ASIO standard which is recommended for use in Sonar 3.xx. Again, it gives me about 3msec latency.

=> The A/D converters and onboard pre-amps are always well reviewed and to this point seem to have served me well -- it is my skills which need improving not their widgets... ;)

Ciao,

Q.
 
minofifa said:
I've been looking at the Delta 1010LT and it looks like a pretty neat soundcard. lots of connections. My one complaint would be all of those dang wires getting mixed up. That looks like a nightmare waiting to happen.
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If you're into simple electronic & woodcraft, you can build your own patch bay. Here's some pic of my table... I route every connection from the back of the PC to some place reachable on the desk, right on the front of my small monitoring mixer...
 

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This pic shot from the side of the table. The side panel can be opened, in case I want to fix some connection...
 

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cool setup james.
One bit of info that i heard a while ago, and that i try to follow, is that the more connections you have, the greater the degradation of your signal. For example, you would suffer more degredation going into your patchday thingy, than if you went straight from a mic to the sound card. ausing y-cables and 1/4 converters degraded the signal as well.
Is there any truth to this? I have seen that you can buy patchbays on musiciansfriend.com to put into a rack. That would be kindof cool.

I proably won't be getting my soundcard for a few months at least. has anybody heard about any new models being proposed? a new aardvark or a nw delta perhaps? do soundcard companies revamp their models each year?
 
I am thinking that getting a delta 101LT and a patchbay would be cheaper than the 1010 itself. Would this be a good alternative? would there be a loss in quality when going through the patchbay?
 
minofifa said:
I am thinking that getting a delta 101LT and a patchbay would be cheaper than the 1010 itself. Would this be a good alternative? would there be a loss in quality when going through the patchbay?
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Keep in mind -- the LT uses unbalanced connections, so you want to be reasonable with cable lengths to avoid interference and other degredations. Also, make sure you get your ground loop issues worked out.

As far as the patch bay... I just so happened to have run some loopback tests a few days ago using RMAA 5.3 against a 2x 1010LT setup with and without patchbay. I got virtually flat frequency response, THD ~ .0008, IMD ~ .006, and 96dB +/- .5 for dynamic range, noise, and stereo crosstalk for each of: 16, 24, 32(int) bit X 44.1, 48, 96 KHz. Above results were for following setup:

Delta 1010LT #1 => 5' snake #1 => Berry PX2000 patch bay => decent 3' RadioShack RCA cable (with RS 1/4' adapters) => 5' snake #2 => Delta 1010LT #2

Then I got almost identical results for the following:

Delta 1010LT #1 => 3' RS RCA cable => Delta 1010LT #2

Then finally same results for:

Delta 1010LT #1 => 3' RS RCA cable => Delta 1010LT #1

So, in my experience the extra connections don't degrade the signal. That assumes you have decent cables/connectors, of course! The RS RCA cable is maybe 1 1/2 years old, and is certainly not the best money can buy, but it's at least a fixed quotient in the above tests. The snakes are Proco Excellines (unbalanced) with neutrik gold RCA connectors that I threw on there myself.

Anyway, hope this helps.

- Keith
 
spankenstein said:
I've been using a 1010LT for over a year now. It's been a great card. The cabling isn't so bad if you buy some 1/4" to RCA snakes. I'm actually selling mine because my PC only has one PCI slot and I need something that has 16+ channels.
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Are you familiar with the Soundscape Mixtreme? Absolutely awesome card. Totally reliable and it will give you 16 ins and outs on TDIF. Take a look HERE. Soundscape is running some great deals on these right now. Check out all their other products as well if your budget is higher.

I've been a happy Mixtreme user now for several years. These cards get NO publicity and it's a shame. If you look at their rather quiet user forum you realize it's quiet because there are so few issues. The cards simply perform flawlessly. No driver issues and great support. The onboard DSP means you can run their plug-ins on the card instead of using the computers CPU. Plus, now, they support VST plugs in their mixer (though these DO run on the host computer). The mixer is totally configurable; you can send anything to anywhere.

The company has been through a lot of problems, but they're back now and are looking VERY strong. My only gripe with them is that they use TDIF instead of ADAT for their digital connections.

I originally got the Mixtreme to work with the Tascam TDM1000 mixer which was a great combo (still is for a lot of people, actually). 16 channel digital mixer with automation, effects and even MIDI control, AND a soundcard for under a $1000.00!

Ted
 
tedluk said:
Are you familiar with the Soundscape Mixtreme? Absolutely awesome card. Totally reliable and it will give you 16 ins and outs on TDIF. Take a look HERE. Soundscape is running some great deals on these right now. Check out all their other products as well if your budget is higher.

I've been a happy Mixtreme user now for several years. These cards get NO publicity and it's a shame. If you look at their rather quiet user forum you realize it's quiet because there are so few issues. The cards simply perform flawlessly. No driver issues and great support. The onboard DSP means you can run their plug-ins on the card instead of using the computers CPU. Plus, now, they support VST plugs in their mixer (though these DO run on the host computer). The mixer is totally configurable; you can send anything to anywhere.

The company has been through a lot of problems, but they're back now and are looking VERY strong. My only gripe with them is that they use TDIF instead of ADAT for their digital connections.

I originally got the Mixtreme to work with the Tascam TDM1000 mixer which was a great combo (still is for a lot of people, actually). 16 channel digital mixer with automation, effects and even MIDI control, AND a soundcard for under a $1000.00!

Ted
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Not quite sure I understand this card.

I am not familiar with the TDIF input. Is this a digital input? I don't see anything about A/D, D/A converters. Is the card only good for transferring digital signals?

The other cards under discussing are used for digitizing an audio signal for recording directly into a computer.
 
dachay2tnr said:
Not quite sure I understand this card.

I am not familiar with the TDIF input. Is this a digital input? I don't see anything about A/D, D/A converters. Is the card only good for transferring digital signals?

The other cards under discussing are used for digitizing an audio signal for recording directly into a computer.
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TDIF (Tascam Digital InterFace) is Tascams digital format. Unfortunately, it didn't gain quite the following that ADAT did though there are solutions for getting from one to the other and some manufacturers still have interfaces for both.

By itself, the card offers 16 channels (at 48kHz), in and out on TDIF. If you look at the right side of THIS page you will see the available options for connecting to the analog world. Or, on that same page, look at the Mixtreme bundles. Through the end of August, they are offering the Mixtreme 192, 2 iBox 8 (8 analog I/O x 2) and their Audio ToolBox plug ins for $500.00 USD. There are also other I/O boxes for different applications. It's a highly configurable and expandable system.

Ted
 
wow i didn't know there so many high quality soundcards to choose from. I think, however, that i'll probably go with the Delta 1010. I really like the aardvark q10 but with my student discount (at studica.com) the price of the delta drops from 1159 canadian to like 7 something. That like 400 dollars difference. I doubt i could find a NEW aardvark for that cheap. I know i'll have to worry about preamps but that wil be a later investment.

How does the quality of sound compare between the two? it seems apparent that the deltas win out in the driver design, agree or disagree?
 
tedluk said:
Through the end of August, they are offering the Mixtreme 192, 2 iBox 8 (8 analog I/O x 2) and their Audio ToolBox plug ins for $500.00 USD. There are also other I/O boxes for different applications. It's a highly configurable and expandable system.

Ted
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That's a little more comparable to the Delta 1010. However, I'm not too crazy about the fact that the I/O box appears to be only 20 bit, is not rack mounted, and uses RCA inputs. But $500 for 16 channels ain't bad.

The Delta is in the same price range, but is 24 bit and the breakout box is rack mountable and uses 1/4" balanced connections - although only 8 channels.
 
dachay2tnr said:
That's a little more comparable to the Delta 1010. However, I'm not too crazy about the fact that the I/O box appears to be only 20 bit, is not rack mounted, and uses RCA inputs. But $500 for 16 channels ain't bad.

The Delta is in the same price range, but is 24 bit and the breakout box is rack mountable and uses 1/4" balanced connections - although only 8 channels.
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Their 20 bit converters sound as good as many 24 bit converters. Sydec is fanatical about their hardware.

I agree about the RCA and unbalanced connectors. But they DO sound great!

The new iBox 48-TA has what you want- and more, albeit at a much heftier price tag ($1895.00 USD), but it's 24 channels of balanced 24 bit/96k I/O and 24 channels of digital I/O on TDIF.

Ted
 
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