Contact RMGI Before It's Too Late

[Good Friend]

tapes

I didnt think of it as raising prices will scare off people, but i see your point.

But do you really think that people would call 35 bucks a tape cheap but 50 a tape just too expensive? All the digital guys i know would bitch to even have to go pick the tape up even if it was free. Theyd bitch even if the tape was already at their house but they had to thread it themselves. Theyd bitch if the tape threaded itself but they had to clean and demag the machine themselves. Now of course the small amount of digital people i know doesnt mean everyone is the same, im just saying...

 

[Flangerhans]

I could see a fine advertisement for tape, if RMGI ever decided to expand their customer base. Just give someone a DAW setup in windows with not...quite...enough memory, and film them cursing the thing wildly. Make sure the hard disk is on it's last legs, so that as soon as they are close to getting a good track recorded, it craps out. Make them use Cubase, so it takes them fifteen hours to set the damn thing up usably, throw in some badly written plug ins that destabilize the whole system thoroughly, and top the whole thing off with a sterile preamp that causes everything to sound as if it was recorded in a refrigerator.
Tape sounds good, yes. But one thing I like about working with it is that my takes are sitting on reels, tails out, and will be there no matter what power outages or digital gremlins show up. Digital guys can talk about no splicing all day long, but ask any of them about how much time they put into backing up tracks, or reading manuals written by obtuse chinese William F. Buckley clones then translated from the tagalog version, or how much they've spent on stuff to make their recordings sound, "warm". I'm willing to bet that if you put the average bit lover in front of a good analog machine for a day or two, they'd see the ease of operation faster than they'd see the sound quality...just don't make them have to calibrate the damn thing.
That is how RMGI needs to expand...demonstrate the superiority of tape by getting it out to the public, and giving them a chance to use it. It doesn't need an elitist marketing campaign, just it's own merits to survive and thrive.

 

[cjacek]

But do you really think that people would call 35 bucks a tape cheap but 50 a tape just too expensive? All the digital guys i know would bitch to even have to go pick the tape up even if it was free. Theyd bitch even if the tape was already at their house but they had to thread it themselves. Theyd bitch if the tape threaded itself but they had to clean and demag the machine themselves.

That's a great point and an extension of my feelings as well. I can't underline the point enough that analog enthusiasts will buy tape even if it's too expensive by standards set in the past. I highly doubt "going digital" or getting people to switch over to analog has anything to do with tape costs.

 

[cjacek]

I could see a fine advertisement for tape, if RMGI ever decided to expand their customer base. Just give someone a DAW setup in windows with not...quite...enough memory, and film them cursing the thing wildly. Make sure the hard disk is on it's last legs, so that as soon as they are close to getting a good track recorded, it craps out. Make them use Cubase, so it takes them fifteen hours to set the damn thing up usably, throw in some badly written plug ins that destabilize the whole system thoroughly, and top the whole thing off with a sterile preamp that causes everything to sound as if it was recorded in a refrigerator.
Tape sounds good, yes. But one thing I like about working with it is that my takes are sitting on reels, tails out, and will be there no matter what power outages or digital gremlins show up. Digital guys can talk about no splicing all day long, but ask any of them about how much time they put into backing up tracks, or reading manuals written by obtuse chinese William F. Buckley clones then translated from the tagalog version, or how much they've spent on stuff to make their recordings sound, "warm". I'm willing to bet that if you put the average bit lover in front of a good analog machine for a day or two, they'd see the ease of operation faster than they'd see the sound quality...just don't make them have to calibrate the damn thing.
That is how RMGI needs to expand...demonstrate the superiority of tape by getting it out to the public, and giving them a chance to use it. It doesn't need an elitist marketing campaign, just it's own merits to survive and thrive.

This is actually a BRILLIANT post. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[cjacek]

Just to expand a bit what Flangerhans said and to give an example from my side.....

Last year sometime, I went over to some guy's house, who was selling a TASCAM reel to reel recorder. He had a pretty nice home studio and recorded bands and such. He was also a music teacher. His setup was all digital and he was selling the tape recorder on behalf of someone.

When I came by with my blank tape and take-up reel, to test the recorder, he couldn't get over how good the deck sounded. He mic'd a couple of instruments and recorded spoken voice. He commented how quiet it was and how great all the functions operated. The guy was mesmerized, like a kid staring at a magic act. It was quite interesting his reaction.

He said that if I don't buy the tape deck, he would. I instantly made a convert out of him by simply demonstrating. He was awe struck at how silky smooth the sound was and used the now overdone term "warm" to describe what he heard. I could see it clearly on his face that he was amazed.

He owned a pretty extensive digital setup with all sort of over the top outboard gear like tube preamps and such and yet he was curious about that simple tape machine.

In no time, from the threading of tape to setting levels, we were able to capture captivating sounds. He liked that.

This is the beauty of analog that you get to record almost immediately in the most natural and intuitive way and the results are real, printed linearly to something called a tape, a real tape.

No tricks, no sleight of hand, just straight forward, predictable recording.

 

[MCI2424]

It's important RMGI know the small and home studios are out here and we're not interested in audiophool prices.

Tape prices are up by 50% since late last year.

After talking to tapes.com about their 12% price increase for 1/2" SM911 since February it appears RMGI is basically fixing prices. All the vendors I know of are given virtually no wiggle room on pricing.

If RMGI follows the same “Way of the Asshole” as Quantegy did, we can kiss them goodbye as well. Mark my words… what they think will work will not work. There aren't enough Steve Abinis to keep them going. It's going to take large and small studios for tape to survive.

So, I hope I won’t be the only one writing RMGI. I didn't publicly make a big deal about problems at Quantegy for almost two years because I felt they were new at it and things would work out. I'm not waiting until the eleventh hour this time.

RMGI doesn’t have any competition and they're not allowing vendors to compete either… prices are the same now wherever you look. The best a vendor can do is send tapes by Media Mail to save us a few bucks on shipping.

Conventional wisdom would say it will get better over time, but only if RMGI knows the way it is now is unacceptable or just plain unworkable.

It's been said only about one in one hundred people that are bothered by an issue will actually pick up a pen or phone and contact a government or business rep. It really seams a bit worse than that these days to me. Not to mention people often feel their single voice won’t have an impact. The upside is that any good business knows that for every complaint they get there are 99 other people just as pissed, but aren't saying anything... so here ya go...

Hey RMGI! Tape emulators are starting to look pretty good!


CONTACTS:

Don Morris Upper Midwest & Canada
donmorris@rmgi-usa.com
PH: 269-469-2463
Fax 269-469-5411

Doug Bernhardt West USA
dougbernhardt@rmgi-usa.com
PH: 310-613-4418
Fax 909-460-6788

Tom Burrows Lower Midwest & Mexico
tomburrows@rmgi-usa.com
PH: 210-496-6011

Marc Feingold North East USA
marc@thinkfeingold.com
PH: 732-625-1318
Fax 732-625-1319

Phil Paske West USA& Western Canada
philpaske@rmgi-usa.com
PH: 661-287-9877
Fax 661-206-6209

Dean Sauer South East USA
deansauer@rmgi-usa.com
770-475-8193

Recordable Media Group International B.V.
Bredaseweg 108,
4902 NS Oosterhout
The Netherlands

info@rmgi.nl
PH: +31 - 162 - 40 89 50
Fax +31 - 162 - 46 26 11

Check the clickable map below for other agents in Europe and other parts of the globe:
http://www.rmgi.eu/continents.htm

~Tim

The ONLY response they care about is tape sales. No company will operate at a loss, so the most important response is to buy tape. If the market is gone, it is gone and no amount of wishing will repair it. This is the very reason that tape machines are gone BTW. We must vote with our wallets.

 

[marshman]

I agree with MCI2424.

When I bought 2" tape back in the early 80's it was around $160 a reel.. now it is $230ish. It went up $70 in 30 or so years? Not that big of a jump really. I figure I get a lot of use out of a reel as well. I will use most tapes for multiple projects, then I can divide the income from those across the tape cost and it gets more reasonable.

This is just a pay to play situation. If they do not make money, they will go the way of Quantegy and all us analog guys suffer.

I do not have a problem with current tape prices as long as the quality is there. I WISH it were cheaper, and if it goes up significantly more, there will come a time where I might have to quit buying new. That time is not now though.

mm

 

[Beck]

The ONLY response they care about is tape sales. No company will operate at a loss, so the most important response is to buy tape. If the market is gone, it is gone and no amount of wishing will repair it. This is the very reason that tape machines are gone BTW. We must vote with our wallets.

That is a very common response in this day... the first thought is surrender. You have plenty of company. Not to mention an incredible lack of discernment on the part of the average Joe regarding how the economy and business works.

Your response above and the history of your responses in general to the tape issue is fatalistic and uninformed. But that's your choice... those are your fingers and your keyboard.

You seem to celebrate when events pose hardship for analog advocates. You always have. When a tape company or forum shuts down you reactively blame the consumer or user without knowing anything about the situation. Compared to the collective sentiment in what is supposed to be an analog forum your reactions are nothing short of narcissistic inappropriate affect. Why is that?

 

[Beck]

I agree with MCI2424

I can't help you there.

When I bought 2" tape back in the early 80's it was around $160 a reel.. now it is $230ish. It went up $70 in 30 or so years? Not that big of a jump really. I figure I get a lot of use out of a reel as well. I will use most tapes for multiple projects, then I can divide the income from those across the tape cost and it gets more reasonable.

This is just a pay to play situation. If they do not make money, they will go the way of Quantegy and all us analog guys suffer.

I do not have a problem with current tape prices as long as the quality is there. I WISH it were cheaper, and if it goes up significantly more, there will come a time where I might have to quit buying new. That time is not now though.

mm

First of all the way you are measuring the price of tape is not sound. The correct measure is the short term rise especially the recent spike, which was contrived… imposed upon us by Quantegy. For RMGI to use that criminal act as a measure of what tape is worth will only serve to put the last nail in analog’s coffin. Comparing the average price for a 2” reel of tape the cost has increased by 67% in just over two years.

It is simplistic in economic terms to believe the more a manufacturer charges, the greater their profits and chance for survival. It is also naive to believe RMGI must be charging these prices because they have to. Man is inherently greedy and opportunistic.

What MCI said is ridiculous. We’ve already been down that road with Quantegy. The prevailing mindset was to pay the higher cost because it was an investment in the future. Ha!

If you want tape to survive you will become a watchman and communicate to RMGI your concern about the high prices. These costs only serve to drive customers to eBay for used tape, or to drive them away from analog altogether. Regardless of its sticker price, the profit gained from an item that just sits on a shelf because it’s unaffordable is zero.

I warned Quantegy in several communications since ’05 that they were dropping the ball. Absolutely everything I said came to pass… as if I had a crystal ball.

It doesn’t matter if you don’t mind the prices. It's not about you, but about the many people that simply cannot and will not buy the tape they need.

It only shows that you don’t understand the ramifications of RMGI’s conduct.

IT WILL MEAN THE END OF THE LAST TAPE COMPANY!

The fact that I will be able to say I told you so will be of no consolation to me. I’ve been able to do that most of my adult life… the thrill is gone.

On the other hand, if you can buy enough tape to keep RMGI in business… well great! We’re all counting on you.

By the way, I have enough tape and won’t have to buy any for years… if ever. I will not be personally affected by what happens to RMGI. As usual I’m here trying to help new and old members alike avoid what to many would be a disastrous development.

 

[SteveM]

The fact that I will be able to say I told you so will be of no consolation to me. I’ve been able to do that most of my adult life… the thrill is gone.

.

Tim, you crack me up.

You're right. They ought to shift around to a "here to stay" in your face attitude and ease up on the prices. Because people are going to be using tape for a loooong time.

 

[cjacek]

... at least with RMGI, they're keeping their overhead low and expectations to the same level, very much unlike Quantegy. It's not that Q did not sell tape but rather it must have expected 1980's level of interest.

 

[Beck]

Tim, you crack me up.

You're right. They ought to shift around to a "here to stay" in your face attitude and ease up on the prices. Because people are going to be using tape for a loooong time.

I even crack myself up.

You hit on an important point… appearances. Quantegy was unable or unwilling to heed warnings concerning their image. It didn’t help that they were churning out bad batches of tape over the last two years, but their image was just as important, as it is to every business. They could have fixed the quality control issue had that been the only issue. 406, 456 and GP9 are outstanding tapes, but the wrong people were trying to make it.

RMGI is sending the wrong message. With each jump in prices more people that are standing at the crossroads decide it’s time to dump analog and reluctantly take the digital path. Many have no choice. I can’t even blame them. People see price increases and price controls as just another flare fired from the deck of analog’s sinking ship.

What matters is how the industry responds as a whole. Yep, sorry everyone… statistics and the big picture again, which is how one must evaluate an issue such as this, and yes we have to do math…. DAMN!

And it doesn’t matter how many people on this forum don’t get it. All that means is that they will be surprised, which is no surprise to me, so I’ll just be doubly unsurprised. I live in a constant state of unsurprised. It’s not that bad. It gives me room for stimulation of my choosing.

Oh wait… I was a little surprised when Britney Spears frenched Madonna at the MTV awards, but I was not surprised by the resultant demon possession, which ultimately lead Spears to shave her head and think she was the anti-Christ. I’m sure not many others have connected the incidents. And people think herpes is the worst that can happen, but there again I’m not surprised.

 

[Good Friend]

Atr

What about ATR? I admit i am not fully up to date on all tape manufacturing information and all that, but even though its been awhile they still seem to intend to start selling tapes. It would be pretty ridiculous to have a whole site and everything saying its coming without there being at least something in the works. Besides, they sell and repair machines that need it. Maybe im just a total idiot but it seems in their best interest to keep tapes coming to some degree as long as they are selling machines that use them.

What is everyones fear? That ATR is completely lying and isnt going to start manufacturing tape? That they will only make 2" tape and sell it for a small fortune? Everyone seems to either forget about them or dismiss their claims. Why is that?

 

[Good Friend]

Tape Sales

Does anyone here have a decent guess as to how much tape gets sold per year? Not cassettes, i mean 1/4" up to 2".

 

[Beck]

ATR? Well they’ve been teasing us with that tape since late 2004… and their analog niche depends on the perception that there will indeed be tape around in the future. They could go out of business overnight if their clientele believed otherwise.

And though it’s not rocket science, mass-producing quality tape is not like making pickles or salad dressing, or everyone would be jumping into the game.

 

[MCI2424]

That is a very common response in this day... the first thought is surrender. You have plenty of company. Not to mention an incredible lack of discernment on the part of the average Joe regarding how the economy and business works.

Your response above and the history of your responses in general to the tape issue is fatalistic and uninformed. But that's your choice... those are your fingers and your keyboard.

You seem to celebrate when events pose hardship for analog advocates. You always have. When a tape company or forum shuts down you reactively blame the consumer or user without knowing anything about the situation. Compared to the collective sentiment in what is supposed to be an analog forum your reactions are nothing short of narcissistic inappropriate affect. Why is that?

I ,for one, know how buisiness works. In order to keep employees paid as well as all the overhead, any buisiness needs customers. It is sales that drives any company to invest money to provide a product. If you want them to provide a product, buy it. Sending letters is no solution as they know their market far better than you. They are paid to know. Tape machines are gone and whatever machines that are left in our hands are the only users of their product. If they can't sell enough product, they shut their doors. No amount of wishing and pleading through letters can change that. Sales will change everything.

and BTW : I have tape recorders and actually buy 1/2" and 2" which costs waaay more than 1/4". I am providing sales, how much do you buy?

 

[famous beagle]

I ,for one, know how buisiness works. In order to keep employees paid as well as all the overhead, any buisiness needs customers. It is sales that drives any company to invest money to provide a product. If you want them to provide a product, buy it. Sending letters is no solution as they know their market far better than you. They are paid to know. Tape machines are gone and whatever machines that are left in our hands are the only users of their product. If they can't sell enough product, they shut their doors. No amount of wishing and pleading through letters can change that. Sales will change everything.

and BTW : I have tape recorders and actually buy 1/2" and 2" which costs waaay more than 1/4". I am providing sales, how much do you buy?

I must say MCI, this argument doesn't make sense to me.

If all we can do to help a company thrive is buy their product, doesn't that place all the power with the company and none with the consumer? What's to stop them from continuing to raise prices?

By your line of logic, if they decide to double prices tomorrow, then ... so be it. They know what they're doing! It's up to us as consumers to step up to the plate and fork out the bucks to keep them a profitable company!

Surely you can't think that?

If you don't think companies can price themselves out of business, then ... how much can you know about business? Because that happens all the time, from corporations down to individual freelancers.

 

[Flangerhans]

I see an unpleasant trend here. I buy tape, yes, though no more than perhaps $1000 a year. Still, that means that if there are 100 people like me, there's a hundred grand worth of sales from small users. I guarantee that there are more people using 1/4" tape than 2", and if this is by a factor of 8, then 1/4" will be the important market to focus upon. This is no time to be dividing tape users into camps, instead we should all be working on letting the suppliers know that we are united, speak to each other, and won't let them take advantage of their monopoly.
The argument that they pay marketing consultants who, "know their market", is ludicrous at best. Where does their information come from? Why, through surveying the people that actually buy their product. The conclusion of this line of thinking is that a projected sample of the market is more accurate than the buyers themselves. Having met a few of these folks in my time, I can assure you that they are not clairvoyant, in fact their knowledge was no help at all to Quantegy.
To tell the truth, the best thing that could happen to the tape market would be the invention and distribution of machinery that would manufacture tape in home use quantities. This is not likely to happen, but it sure would be nice to see all the corporate lackies running for cover.

 

[MCI2424]

I must say MCI, this argument doesn't make sense to me.

If all we can do to help a company thrive is buy their product, doesn't that place all the power with the company and none with the consumer? What's to stop them from continuing to raise prices?

By your line of logic, if they decide to double prices tomorrow, then ... so be it. They know what they're doing! It's up to us as consumers to step up to the plate and fork out the bucks to keep them a profitable company!

Surely you can't think that?

If you don't think companies can price themselves out of business, then ... how much can you know about business? Because that happens all the time, from corporations down to individual freelancers.

Are you serious? I am asking because I truly don't understand. Companies can only provide a product if it sells. Do you think Quantagy just said "Hey. lets kill the analog tape for an April fools joke?"


I can't really believe that people here are hoping that a company will take a loss, with no or little sales and keep losing money because of a few heartfelt letters. I just ordered some reels of 1/2" tape from Emtec. I am voting with my wallet and providing some sales for the last tape company out there.

As long as people (plenty here) keep crowing over their last great purchase of used tape off of eBay, the last tape company will lose sales and they will be gone. If you can't see my logic, you will lose the last tape company and that is a fact.

 

[famous beagle]

Are you serious? I am asking because I truly don't understand. Companies can only provide a product if it sells. Do you think Quantagy just said "Hey. lets kill the analog tape for an April fools joke?"


I can't really believe that people here are hoping that a company will take a loss, with no or little sales and keep losing money because of a few heartfelt letters. I just ordered some reels of 1/2" tape from Emtec. I am voting with my wallet and providing some sales for the last tape company out there.

As long as people (plenty here) keep crowing over their last great purchase of used tape off of eBay, the last tape company will lose sales and they will be gone. If you can't see my logic, you will lose the last tape company and that is a fact.

Do you think they're in danger of taking a loss with the price they've set? Are you kidding?

"Companies can only provide a product if it sells."

This is certainly true, but ...

In order for a product to sell, it needs to be priced properly.