Constant dropouts in multitrack recording

Ninja_Drummer

Ninja_Drummer

New member
So I was recording a band consisting of a vocals, guitar, bass, and 4 mics for the drums. Which adds up to about 7 inputs going through my Alesis io 26 firewire. I have the buffer settings set to 512 as a default. And I have the "adjust for recording latency" option on in the vst setup menu. But when I record, cubase constantly freezes then drops out of recording and enters playback mode instead. I've checked my windows task manager and it shows that my cpu usage is at 100%. My ram doesn't seemed to be overworked much but my cpu is. I've turned the firewall and exited all unecessary programs beforehand as well as disabled the networking and wireless devices and still the problem persists.

I'm using a Dell Studio 17 laptop.
-Intel Core 2 Duo ual processor 2.1 ghz
-4gb ram
-500gb hdd.

I found this quite strange. My only conclusion is that I need a more powerful processor. But is there anything else I ca do so that I may reduce the power savvy cubase?
 
Hello, i'm 99.99% sure that your problem isn't your CPU, i have seen people recording 8 tracks with a Simple Athlon XP 2.0 (1.67 Ghz) and 512 MB on Ram, with firewire you shouldn't have any problems recording 8 tracks. Did you install your drivers properly? BTW, your Buffer should be at 128 or 256 maximum to avoid latency. Try skipping the "Adjust for Recording Latency" off to check where is the problem. What OS are you using? I saw that the Alesis works for Mac OS X, Vista and XP (there was no info about Windows 7).

Cheers
 
I'm using Windows vista 64 bit. I've tried downloading the updates for the alesis and cubase off the web. But it didn't seem to change anything. But I can try again by uninstalling and reinstalling cubase.
 
Hello, I am new here. I've used Nuendo in various forms since 2001. I am also currently using Windows Vista 64 bit Ultimate.

If you are finished tracking VSTi (ie not recording them anymore), you can set the buffers to the maximum size available. Having maximum latency is easier on the machine, and it is irrelevant during recording audio because Cubase takes latencies into account for this. The problem with VSTi is that you would hear the sound way after playing the instrument with higher latencies, so these must be tracked at lower latency.

I won't track at low latency if I am not doing VSTi. The lower the latency, the harder it is for the machine to do everything that must be done in each time slice, so unless I am currently recording a VSTi, I keep the buffer sizes up.

Also, unless you really need a higher sample rate for a project for some known reason, the basic 44.1 is much less taxing on the machine. Some plugins do need higher sample rates to function effectively (mostly eq's whose algorithms are not the best), but certainly not all.

Do you have any plugins in use right now? Begin disabling those one by one and check your cpu usage as each one is being disabled.

Do you have any VSTi in use right now? Begin disabling those as above.

Hopefully you can find the culprit that is chewing up your cpu.

I've got mixes on an Intel QuadCore that cannot be completed in real time unless I move to maximum buffer sizes. I am also using some plugins that are real CPU hogs, and currently have no alternatives for those particular plugins. I use them because of their sound, and I have to take their CPU intensiveness into account when I use them.
 
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Here is a link to a highly relevant tool in the cases of dropouts, but your computer does not register a high cpu usage.

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

They give some indication on how to use the tool, but be careful with how you apply the procedures, ie, don't go willy nilly disabling drivers if you haven't got a real clue about what you are up to. You'll be doing a reinstallation of your OS as a next step...

I will also add for the OP, that I hope you are using a proper fully registered copy of Cubase and not a crack. Many of the cracks have issues...
 
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Are you recording to the internal drive???

The OS and programs often have to do other housekeeping chores and that can interrupt the constant stream of data, thus dropouts.

You should always record to a secondary drive (yes even usb2 will work) so the stream is not interrupted.

What you want on EVERY daw:
OS, programs and vsts on the boot drive
Secondary drive for recording data
Third drive if you're using sample libraries
 
JDL said:
Hello, I am new here. I've used Nuendo in various forms since 2001. I am also currently using Windows Vista 64 bit Ultimate.

If you are finished tracking VSTi (ie not recording them anymore), you can set the buffers to the maximum size available. Having maximum latency is easier on the machine, and it is irrelevant during recording audio because Cubase takes latencies into account for this. The problem with VSTi is that you would hear the sound way after playing the instrument with higher latencies, so these must be tracked at lower latency.

I won't track at low latency if I am not doing VSTi. The lower the latency, the harder it is for the machine to do everything that must be done in each time slice, so unless I am currently recording a VSTi, I keep the buffer sizes up.

Also, unless you really need a higher sample rate for a project for some known reason, the basic 44.1 is much less taxing on the machine. Some plugins do need higher sample rates to function effectively (mostly eq's whose algorithms are not the best), but certainly not all.

Do you have any plugins in use right now? Begin disabling those one by one and check your cpu usage as each one is being disabled.

Do you have any VSTi in use right now? Begin disabling those as above.

Hopefully you can find the culprit that is chewing up your cpu.

I've got mixes on an Intel QuadCore that cannot be completed in real time unless I move to maximum buffer sizes. I am also using some plugins that are real CPU hogs, and currently have no alternatives for those particular plugins. I use them because of their sound, and I have to take their CPU intensiveness into account when I use them.
Click to expand...

At the time of the recording I had no vst plugins running. I was pretty much running straight out raw from my interface into the computer. My only conclusion is that maybe there is so much info going into the computer from the interface with all the tracks being active and instruments playing.

TimOBrien said:
Are you recording to the internal drive???

The OS and programs often have to do other housekeeping chores and that can interrupt the constant stream of data, thus dropouts.

You should always record to a secondary drive (yes even usb2 will work) so the stream is not interrupted.

What you want on EVERY daw:
OS, programs and vsts on the boot drive
Secondary drive for recording data
Third drive if you're using sample libraries
Click to expand...

Yes I am as a matter of fact. I have actually thought about using an exterior source for saving and recording files. Though it also concerns me if the exterior hdd will be able to keep up with all the data that is being processed. It is worth a try though. I'll try it out once I get the chance.
 
This statement of mine earlier, "Here is a link to a highly relevant tool in the cases of dropouts, but your computer does not register a high cpu usage", is a bit confusing.

You've probably got something else going on to be causing such a high CPU usage, and I was thinking it would be good to address that first.

It would probably be a good idea to run the utility on your machine to find out what it will report anyway. If you have Deferred Procedure Call spiking, that will have to be addressed before the machine would be usable for recording and mixing.

These kinds of issues, DPC, driver issues, and hardware capabilities can be problematic to get tracked and narrowed down.

The Windows Task Manager "processes" tab can be assistive in the process. It can show some information about system resources allocated or being used by various processes.
 
Yeah, check your CPU usage before starting Cubase, if it's low (nearly 0) then open Cubase with a blank project and check it again (F12). Tell us how it goes.
 
Ahh yes I've checked the processes list as well as the cpu data report. On average, without anything running a a blank project on cubase I average about 50+% on my cpu usage. Usually the only processes I have running is explorer.exe (which takes the majority of the cpu bandwidth), cubase (2nd majority), and sycrosoft. I also use the Alesis HDM software but that barely takes any space at all.

Usually cubase, when I'm live multitracking, will average about 10-40k Kbytes on my processes, and I get high constant peaks when I am running live.

I don't have any screenshots of all this data as of now, though I regret not having any. But the next opportunity I have to multitrack again I'll definitely take some and post it here.
 
I'll reiterate on this one.
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

It is quite well worth looking into.

My machine is not one of the best, but it is quite adequate for what I do. I have an older machine also (2nd machine) that cannot touch this one. I often use the older one for tracking, but definitely not for mixing.

50% as indicated by Windows Task Manager is horrible for CPU usage in your circumstance, and I know from experience that it isn't Cubase/Nuendo that is doing it. No tracks? Empty project? That is awful and completely unacceptable. Look at the firewire drivers for your computer, do searches on that, look at the drivers for the Alesis also.

Also, it is helpful to disable cpu speed throttling in the bios, if it is available as an option. Do searches on how to disable speed throttling. Be aware that on batteries your laptop won't run as long.

The ASIO meter in Cubase also covers the ASIO driver performance if I am not mistaken. See the VST Performance picture I've attached.

Speaking of which, you do have the "ASIO only" drivers enabled? Don't select anything to do with DirectX or mixed mode or whatever else. Only use pure ASIO mode for the driver interface. See the attached picture for this. I am using Motu drivers so what I have is somewhat different from what you have, but the basics there should be the same. I've got the buffer size set to 2048. I'll even record with that buffer size if I am not doing MIDI and VSTi.

Take a look at the pictures attached. My disk meter in the VST Performance popup does not register at all (the overall subsystem there is pretty decent). I've got a mix going with a lot of plugins, but only 38 channels going on in the mixer (tracks and groups).

My CPU usage in Windows Task Manager bounces between 25 and 50 percent.

What I've seen other people reporting on firewire use is not encouraging. Some of the firewire chipsets are good, some are not. Some drivers for the firewire itself are good, and others are not. The firewire performance can definitely break things if it is not up to good specs.

I am not using firewire here. I am using a PCIe interface.
 

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What sample rate are you recording at?? If it's not 44.1khz, you should try that. Have you defragged the hard drive?? If you get an external hard drive be sure it's firewire; a USB drive will make things worse.

I agree with the previous comment about cpu useage at 50% when idle. That seems high, especially for an i7.

Do you have a legit copy of cubase??

can't think of anything else off the top of my head.
 
Ninja_Drummer said:
... explorer.exe (which takes the majority of the cpu bandwidth), cubase (2nd majority), and sycrosoft.
Click to expand...

I cannot tell if you are mixing up CPU usage with memory peak or some kind of memory usage. They are quite different.

Explorer.exe is your biggest CPU resource hog? How about with Cubase NOT running? Does it stay about the same?

On ALL of my machines (different machines for different purposes totaling 7 of them) explorer registers nothing on "CPU" except during file copies and such.

Virus/Trojan? Do you have anti-virus software available? I would be looking into doing a scan on your machine. Plugins for Internet Explorer and/or Mozilla firefox? Do you use those? Google/Yahoo/Microsoft search enhancements? Go lean and mean. Get rid of anything that isn't necessary. After a virus/trojan check, you should be able to disable the antivirus software while tracking and mixing.

I should read the posts more carefully. My bad.
 
Yes I am running a legit copy of cubase. It is the LE 4 version that came with my alesis io 26.

I always turn off all unnecessary applications when I use cubase. I turn off Norton Firewall, network wireless devices, aim, windows sounds, other sound devices, I still have about 50% cpu usage. I can look into trying to update my firewire's drivers as it is a built-in firewire. So I'm not sure as to the quality of it, I'm guessing that it may not be up to par?
 
You are now approaching this in a very vague manner, somewhat glossing over things (except for the info concerning which Cubase version you are running).

Things are moving along in little spurts that are not going anywhere.

There have been several items listed and asked for that need to be addressed and reported on (with detail) so that people here can help. Make a list, distilling what is here, and dig into that machine.

At the top of that list in my opinion, we need to address the CPU usage and where the major usage is focused, and why.

Let's look into the CPU usage now. What are the answers? You listed explorer.exe as being a major user of the CPU. Is it; or were you mixing up some of the info (confusing memory and cpu) and looking into the wrong column?
 
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Alright, so my band recorded a little jam we had. And I had buffer settings set to 256 and norton antivirus, firewall, antispyware off.

I hit about 50%+ on the cpu usage

cubase2.jpg

And here's the info about the what's going on

Cubase1.jpg


I noticed that my disk is going crazy... which is pretty unusual. But it is probably because I had the Alesis DVD-rom in the DVD drive and forgot to take it out. But that might not be the case. I notice that in my processes there were quite a lot of svchost in it when I checked "view processes from all users box".
 
1. Is this a laptop used by several people and/or logged into under various names? Instead of switching users, which can leave processes running if I am not mistaken; try fully logging out every user and shutting down all other applications before starting up your "session".

2. It is obvious you have "speed step" running, if that is what it is still called, which controls the processor speed according to the load to be processed. This generally is not good for audio applications. Find out how to disable this on the laptop. I don't know how to do this for your laptop. As I said above, if you try to run the laptop on batteries only after doing this little modification, the batteries will not last long at all. Whatever you do to change it, document it so that you can put it back for when you really do need the laptop for something else and need to run on batteries.

3. Taskmgr.exe is showing 50% CPU use here? Whew. Speed step. Turn it off. The processor speed throttling is generally not able to keep up with the real time demands of an audio application.

4. Your disk io appears to be very much under control as the increment showing seems to be 100K per division. If it is flashing red in Cubase for the disk meter, THAT would indicate a problem.
 
No only one user.

I see, I find that unusual since factory settings don't usually have something like that activated.

And I have the charger plugged in at all times, if that effects in any way.

But the speed stepping option is most likely in the BIOS, but is it recommended to disable it? How will it effect my overall computer use?
 
Ninja_Drummer said:
No only one user.

I see, I find that unusual since factory settings don't usually have something like that activated.

And I have the charger plugged in at all times, if that effects in any way.

But the speed stepping option is most likely in the BIOS, but is it recommended to disable it? How will it effect my overall computer use?
Click to expand...

Yes, disable the variable speed control. It would be in the BIOS. You want the full speed available at all times for the audio processing. There is no time for it to "ramp up".

The 2 main drawbacks are battery life before needing recharged (but you have it plugged in anyway most of the time), and heat generation. Just make sure the laptop is well ventilated, ie, don't set it on carpet or fuzzy surfaces etc. If the laptop does warm up significantly, slightly prop up the back end of it to improve air circulation.

And I'm not saying this will solve all of the problems, but this is now a significant start.
 
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