Connecting CD Player to 424

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studiodrum

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Hey guys,
I need to connect a cd player to my 424mkII-- A few musicians recorded a cd of guitar, bass, and vocals, the would like me to add the drum track, just to get some ideas-- demo/practice quality. .

I would like to be able to play the stuff on the cd player, and record it to one of the tracks on the 424, simultaneously recording the drums on 1, or 2 of the other tracks. . . .
I was wondering if this is possible, and what the best way to hook up the cd player? Thanks guys!
 
Well, sure it's possible!

You just have to work within the capabilities & limitations of the 424mkII.

Here's the lowdown:

Assuming you're using a home-type CD player, and not a portable,...
AND assuming you want to record the CD tracks and LIVE tracks simultaneously,...

1) Find two RCA-to-1/4" adapter plugs,... a simple, low-cost item.

2) Connect a simple RCA/RCA-stereo cable to the CD player's outputs.

3) Connect the two RCA-to-1/4" adapter plugs to the ends of the normal RCA stereo cable.

4) Plug the 1/4" plugs into CHANNELS 1 & 2 of the 424mkII.

5) Set TRACKS 1 & 2 to DIRECT recording mode.

6) Adjust TRIM and faders on CHANNELS 1 & 2, per normal setting procedures. [See manual].

7) Plug your instrument and/or mics into CHANNELS 3 & 4, depending on whether you're just using guitar, 2-mics for drums, or a stereo submix of drums from another mixer.

8) Set TRACKS 3 & 4 to DIRECT recording mode.

9) Adjust TRIM and faders on CHANNELS 3 & 4, per normal setting procedures. [See manual].

10) Press PLAY on the CD player and RECORD on the 424mkII, and go to it!
........
OKAY, if you want to record the CD tracks and INSTRUMENT tracks separately, one after another, just record the CD to Tracks 1 & 2 FIRST, Rewind, and follow by recording the instrument tracks to Tracks 3 & 4, while making sure to put Tracks 1 & 2 on SAFE mode.

IF, you're using a portable CD Walkman, then you'll need a 1/8"-to-RCA Stereo Y-cable adapter, instead of your normal RCA/RCA Stereo cable. Plug your RCA-to-1/4" adapters to the RCA end of the Y-cable.
Other procedures remain the same.

Hope that covers it for'ya.
 
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Thanks 'Reel'. . .!!!

Thanks for your help 'Reel' it was vert helpful, . .sorry that I didn't back to you sooner-- I changed my email addy, and forgot to change it on the forum...

Two quick question if your still around, . .do you think that there would be a huge, or major noticeable quality difference in sound-- If using a portable cd player, compared to a home type player???

Also, is there a way to combine the stereo signal from the cd player, and record to 1 TRACK, rather than 2 Tracks .. . or would that sound like crap?
Thanks again for the assistance.
 
Sure!...

The home/console type of CD player might sound best, because it outputs a standardized signal level out of a pair of stereo RCA jacks.

The portable/walkman type of CD player may or may not have a standard LINE OUT, or output limiter,... depending on the model and type, because some do and some don't,... SO,... especially if you're working with a HEADPHONE-OUT jack,... it may take a bit of playing with the levels on the walkman-CD player and the 424mkII, to get an acceptably clean sound.

It's do-able, either way, but it is probably a bit easier to get a clean sound onto tape on the Porta- from the home-style CD player.

THEN, your second question,... to record the CD signal onto ONE track, as opposed to TWO,... you'd simply need use TWO inputs in the Input [1-4] range, (not 5/6 or 7/8),... AND you'd need to PAN both L & R CD signals to either the right or left, and record in BUSS mode on the Porta-. Implied, is that you'd also have to PAN your guitar signal OPPOSITE the CD-player's signal, & likewise, record in BUSS mode.

The guitar could be recorded in DIRECT mode, but this mixed mode of recording might introduce confusion,... and your CD signal will require BUSS mode recording, anyway, which would ALSO REQUIRE your guitar to be panned opposite the CD,... so stick with BUSS mode recording for both, CD and guitar,... for the sake of simplicity

Worth mentioning, I suppose, is that you could dub the CD and guitar to tape separately,... F/I, record the CD onto the Porta- first, and then rewind and do the guitar track as an overdub. They would not have to be recorded live-to-tape or simultaneously. Probably an obvious point, but I thought I'd mention it, anyway.

Hope that answer gets you there.

/DA
 
Cool. . .!

Thanks again 'Reel', Sounds good, I will just keep it simple!
Later man,. . .
 
final thoughts. . .???

Two quick questions! When I purchase the RCA-to-1/4" adapter plugs, and the RCA/RCA-stereo cables, . .are any type of cables okay, . (like radio shack) or should I find a more quality cable adapters .. .?

Also, when I connect the cd player to the 424 mkII, what's the best way to tests the levels between the cd, and the instrument that I'm recording, . without actually recording yet?

Thanks again!
 
Whatever cables are handy at Radio Shack, Best Buy, or Walmart should do!

The levels from Inputs 5/6/7/8 will register on the L/R-Stereo/MAIN VU-Led's.
 
I'm trying work on getting this up and running this morning. . .

A Reel Person said:
THEN, your second question,... to record the CD signal onto ONE track, as opposed to TWO,... you'd simply need use TWO inputs in the Input [1-4] range, (not 5/6 or 7/8),... AND you'd need to PAN both L & R CD signals to either the right or left, and record in BUSS mode on the Porta-. Implied, is that you'd also have to PAN your guitar signal OPPOSITE the CD-player's signal, & likewise, record in BUSS mode.

The guitar could be recorded in DIRECT mode, but this mixed mode of recording might introduce confusion,... and your CD signal will require BUSS mode recording, anyway, which would ALSO REQUIRE your guitar to be panned opposite the CD,... so stick with BUSS mode recording for both, CD and guitar,... for the sake of simplicity. . ./DA
Click to expand...

I am planning on using the (two) RCA-to-1/4" adapter plugs, and plug the 1/4" plugs into CHANNELS 1 & 2 of the 424mkII to record the cd player. . . But, I would still like to have the option of using only (1) Channel to record the cd player, rather than 1, & 2 . . .So, needless to say I'm a little confused.

couldn't I just run (2) RCA to 1/4" (female) plugs out from the cd player, and then connect that to some sorta XLR - 1/4" male (Y-cable) and plug the single XLR into the 424, .. .?

I think that would reduce the cd player signal to a 'simulated' mono sound, correct, .. but, would it sound awful, . .or have I missed the 'point' completely?
 
No!

You take your two leads from the cd player, and plug them into two channels on the 424mkII, f/i, channels 1 & 2. Then put Track 1 on "Buss L" mode recording, and all other tracks on "SAFE". Then, PAN both Channel 1 and 2 to the LEFT, and you've effectively "Bussed" both cd signals to the left, and they both will record onto track 1.

/DA
 
Ok Gotcha!

So, ultimately, which ever way I go with, I am still going to have to plug into 2 Channels of the 424 from the cd player . . .

I guess what I was trying to do, . . was to find a way to only use 1 Channel, and record on Track 1, and have 2, 3, and 4 channels free .. . But, it doesn't look like that's gonna work .. .
 
Well,...

Remember, you still have the Inputs 5/6/7/8, and this might be a time to bring them into service.
 
Better yet,...

Just use Inputs 1 & 2, as I've described, panning BOTH channels to the left, and record onto TRACK 1 in BUSS L mode. Do the CD recording segment of the project separately, THEN, unplug your cd player and continue, which leaves all 4 primary XLR inputs for the rest of your configuration,... RECORDING THE CD DUB PART AND THE LIVE PART SEPARATELY.
 
a wee bit more help needed. . .

okay, . .need a little assistance, please sirs, . . I connected this all up last night, and it worked great!!!! I got some fantastic drum sounds using just 2 drum mics, recording the entire drum kit in mono (a MXL-v67G, as a single overhead -- roughly 2 feet above, and slightly behind the drum set -- and an ATM25-Pro on the kick)

I was very impressed with what I got, . .the LDC added some nice overall fullness to the kit, while the ATM 25Pro, added some good bottom-- Eventually, I would like to try this setup, using an SM-57 as an overhead, and the 25Pro in the kick-- I hear that a few guys on the Tascam forum, I think 'REEL, and maybe 'FM' use this as an overhead, and get some excellent results with this mic.

A Reel Person said:
Assuming you're using a home-type CD player, and not a portable,...
AND assuming you want to record the CD tracks and LIVE tracks simultaneously,...

1) Find two RCA-to-1/4" adapter plugs,... a simple, low-cost item.

2) Connect a simple RCA/RCA-stereo cable to the CD player's outputs.

3) Connect the two RCA-to-1/4" adapter plugs to the ends of the normal RCA stereo cable.

4) Plug the 1/4" plugs into CHANNELS 1 & 2 of the 424mkII.

5) Set TRACKS 1 & 2 to DIRECT recording mode.

6) Adjust TRIM and faders on CHANNELS 1 & 2, per normal setting procedures. [See manual].

7) Plug your instrument and/or mics into CHANNELS 3 & 4, depending on whether you're just using guitar, 2-mics for drums, or a stereo submix of drums from another mixer.

8) Set TRACKS 3 & 4 to DIRECT recording mode.

9) Adjust TRIM and faders on CHANNELS 3 & 4, per normal setting procedures. [See manual].

10) Press PLAY on the CD player and RECORD on the 424mkII, and go to it!
Click to expand...

Anyway, a few things that I'm a little sketchy on:

ONE:
When you plug the cd player into Ch 1 & 2 using 1/4" plugs-- is it best to control the signal volume from the incoming cd by the TRIM, or CHANNEL FADER? What is a good rough rule of thumb? *** TRIM (low), and FADER (high) ***

(it seemed that the TRIM had less control over the input volume--then the CH FADER)

TWO: (Pan)
with the cd in CH 1 & 2, and the drums on 3 & 4, what is a good idea,to have the PAN knobs on ( I realize that this question is relative, but, a good reference to start-- would help)

THREE: (Hot Peaks)
I was getting a lot of spiking HIGH PEAKS when recording with the cd, and drums-- But, on playback,..there was hardly any distortion, if any. . . Is it possible to overload the 424mkII, and damage it, by recording too hoot?

FOUR: (Headphone mix)
I have a Headphone amp. But, since it was only me, and a cd-- I used the headphone jack on the 424 to track with. . .But, I was really struggling TRYING to get a good Headphone mix-- using the the headphone LEVEL knob-- Is it best to keep it up high, or mid, . .

FOUR: (Monitor Switches)
Struggling here, . .what's a good reference position for these switches during tracking with the cd, . .and should the positions change during playback, or mixing?

FIVE: (EFFECT 1, & EFFECT 2/TAPE CUE KNOBS)
Okay, . .REALLY struggling with these knobs, . .Briefly,..please explain to me, what is the BASIC function of these knobs are, and what position they should be in, during tracking and recording.

Thanks again for the initial help, . . it sounded awesome for the first time!
 
Well,...

1) Set the Channel fader on about "7", and do the rest of the level control with the "TRIM". That's the approximate setting procedure in the 424mkII manual, and since the 424mkII lacks true Overload (OL) LEDs, it just doesn't get any better than that.

2) PAN both CD signals to one side, and both drum signals to the opposite side. That way, when in BUSS Mode recording, you'll have separate feeds going to tape tracks 1 and 2.
1L->CD, & 2/R->Drums.

3) Of course, it's possible to redline the heck out of the 424 inputs, and damage it, but it would have to be a VERY excessively hot input for a prolonged time to cause actual damage. But, yes, it's possible to redline the inputs to point of failure. This is most often the case when people use outboard preamps into the mic/line inputs, without regard for proper gain staging. Technically, if we're talking about a home/console style CD player, the nominal line signal should be a nice (-10dbV), which is compatible with the 424mkII's LINE In's. However, if we're talking about the headphone feed of a walkman-style CD player, there's a fundamental mismatch of levels and impedance, and you should procede with caution. If this is the case, it's best to drive the headphone-out jack with the very minimum of signal, and you should be okay, but otherwise, I'd generally recommend against this type of hookup.

Next point, is that analog tape is VERY forgiving of the spiky overload peaks, and that's one of the beauties of analog.

4) If you have a proper mix level going to the BUSSes, then the headphone level should be in the 3-4 range. That's in general, and not cast in stone.

4a) It's basically okay to put the L, R and EFFECT2/CUE monitor switches to the RIGHT position, and that's usually okay for tracking and mixing. However, when mixing, you may either want to turn all EFFECT2/CUE knobs down, or switch the EFFECT2/CUE monitor switch back to the left, to avoid a confusing number of signals in the monitor. The EFFECT1 switch is irrelevant, unless you're actually using the EFFECT1 in the mix.

5) Effect1 is Effect1 (output), only, but Effect2 is serving double-duty as Effect2-output AND the CUE system, (switchable). You may run an effects-loop off Effect1's output, and feed the effected signal back into Inputs 5/6/7/8, which is a "standard" setup. You may also use Effect2 for effects-out, but by the flip of a switch, the Effect2 signal is "borrowed" for the purpose of feeding the CUE monitor. The CUE monitor is the section of the monitor that you (must) listen to your previously recorded (cue) tracks, while overdubbing a new part. The secret about the CUE monitor that Newbies find so mysterious, is that the CUE monitor is essential to keep your INPUT signals separate from your previously recorded tracks, during the OVERDUB process. FAILURE to grasp this concept, and failure to use the CUE monitor system properly, and you'll INEVITABLY be producing a "bounce-mix" of signals, each time you overdub. USE the CUE monitor system to listen to previously recorded tracks while overdubbing, and you'll be okay. It's when (typical Newbies) start bringing in what "should" be the CUE tracks into the MAIN mix while overdubbing, is when they start hearing a "ghost" or "bounce" of the previous track in the new track,... and that's illustrative of a fundamental MISTAKE. Not to repeat myself further, but the purpose of the Cue system is to keep "cue" tracks SEPARATE from "input" tracks, while overdubbing. For a more concise explanation, reference the MANUAL.

In general, unless you're using the Effect1 output to drive an effect unit, then leave those 4 knobs all the way OFF, (CCW). However, you'll USUALLY have the EFFECT2/CUE switch set to the TAPE CUE position, and you'll have the corresponding EFFECT2/CUE knobs set to the appropriate levels to get a suitable CUE signal in the monitor.

Glad to hear you're progressing!!! When you're just starting, tackling and mastering primary recording concepts always leads to more detailed questions, like this. Good luck!!
 
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A Reel Person said:
Glad to hear you're progressing!!! When you're just starting, tackling and mastering primary recording concepts always leads to more detailed questions, like this. Good luck!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, Thanks for the words of encouragement, . . Although, I have to say without the help, and patience from evertyone on this thread, especially you, 'Digi-Smidgi', and 'FM' I would be in Anaolg Hell. . . !!! :) Thanks guys!

A Reel Person said:
1) Set the Channel fader on about "7", and do the rest of the level control with the "TRIM". That's the approximate setting procedure in the 424mkII manual, and since the 424mkII lacks true Overload (OL) LEDs, it just doesn't get any better than that.
Click to expand...

I'm having a slight problem, and I cant figure out why? When I plug the cd player (which is a cassette deck-- not portable type) into the 424 through the RCA--> 1/4" plug cables. . . If I turn the TRIM knob all the way down, .I still get a STRONG signal, . . !

--- So, I can have the FADERS at 5, or 6 with the TRIM all the way down, and still get high peaks? How is that possible?

Thanks!
 
Okay Drum, I'll take that at face value.

So, maybe your CD player is outputting a hotter signal than -10dbV line level, which is a possibility, I'm sure. I'd have to run a similar CD input into the 1/4" jacks, to do my own experimenting, before I could speak more definitievely on this. I'd expect the "home/console" type of CD player to output a nominal -10dbV line level from the RCA, but each CD player could deviate from that standard, on a case-by-case basis. After all, there is a "louder is better" mentality that's pervasive in the audio industry, so maybe they cranked up the outputs on your CD deck. We'll just speculate about that, for now, but if the level is too hot, then turn it down.

... There may also be an outboard RCA/RCA (stereo) attenuator that may be available from the likes of Radio Shack,... so keep that in the back of your mind, and maybe check around a bit. If the CD player output line level is WAY too hot, then there could be a potential problem there, and it would then be a good idea to think about how to attenuate that signal, outboard- before it reaches the inputs of the 424mkII.

Maybe, when I get a chance, I could set up a mock-up of your CD-to-424 setup, and experiment with it a bit.

Aye! ;)
 
CD player might be sending hotter signal. . . ?

than -10dbV line level. . . Well, one things foe sure, is that I get a pretty good signal with the TRIM Knobs set at ZERO. . .But, I can control the signal pretty well with the FADERS, . . If I keep the faders at about 5-6.

I mean I can increase the TRIM slightly,. . .But then I would have to LOWER the FADERS to about 3-4. . .Its just weird that the TRIM can be at ZERO, and I can still get a strong signal with using the FADERS.

If you have some time on your hands, and you can try and simulate that cd to 424 scenario, . .that would be great!

***
just curious, during tracking, . .what level should the master be at , . roughly.
Thanks Dave . . .
 
Nah, duh! I'm sorry!!

With a -10dbV signal into the 1/4" jacks, the TRIM should be in the (minimum) fully CCW position, anyway, by definition! All the way toward the "LINE" designation,... and procede from there.

Forgot to mention that, specifically!!

You're fine!
 
Good, good good, . .!

No problem man, Thanks . . . So, I'm okay with just using the FADERS to set levels, and settimg the TRIM Knob to the off position, . or hard left. . . .Yes???

PS, What does CCW mean. . ?
 
studiodrum said:
No problem man, Thanks . . . So, I'm okay with just using the FADERS to set levels, and settimg the TRIM Knob to the off position, . or hard left. . . .Yes???

PS, What does CCW mean. . ?
Click to expand...

Yes, hard left.

CCW means "counter clockwise", but it's a bit of an outdated term, in these days of all-digital clocks. Remember when clocks had hands, and they moved in a circular motion to the right? Fully CCW is opposite of that: rotational, fully to the left.

CW=Clockwise and
CCW=Counter Clockwise.
(aka, Anti-Clockwise, if you're from Australia). ;)

... aka means "also known as".

Heh./DA
 
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