condensors for live vocal applications

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sound125

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I'm interested in hearing from musicians who are using condensors for live vocal applications. Which ones do you like and why? Thanks. :)
 
I would stay away from them if you are not seasoned to live sound. The only time I find them of use is in low volume type music (ie acoustic guitar duo ) or on a large stage ith lots of space between performers. I have the shure 87 , 86 senn 9oo series , the neuman and the rode s1. the 87 is a little boxy, the senn is a little bass and low mid heavy, the rode is realatively smooth but a little noisy, the neuman is real nice. If you are in a high volume situation on stage in a smaller environment they can be hard to control, if you use inear monitors this is much less of a problem. If you have wedges and the more me syndrome you are looking for trouble. Loud drummer and lead vocalist in center of stage you will have a nice audition as to what cymbals sound like. Larger stages provide some seperation and they can be useful for someone who knows good mic technique as they can really pickup the nuances of there performance.
 
I am not a fan of them at all for live sound (smill indoor shows, and also large outdoor events). I only MIGHT use them for vocals, but really I feel like an SM58 will do you just as good if it's eq'd, and cost a whole lot less.
 
if your sound guy is good, you may be ok.
but they can be very problematic, with little benefit. and even that no one will probably be able to hear unless you have a sound guy who's able to make use of it.
 
I think they CAN be good. As others have written, it depends on the application.

I recently did sound for a show. I brought some great dynamic mics (MD 441, 421, Beyer M88, etc.). The singer tried a couple and then opted to use his Beta 87. And I have to admit it sounded better for his voice; clearer and with response curve well-suited to him.

BUT - it was an outdoor gig, meaning less feedback problems, and the monitors were at the sides, where they ought to be with hypercardioids.
Plus, he plays piano, so his head is always providing a baffle from the drums behind him.
 
To cut to the chase... the Neumann is the same mic I picked. They are really really great.
 
I tryied a Rode S1 for a couple of gigs but had a few problems with getting the sound
and levels where i was happy.
Considering its an acoustic duo and i'm mixing from the side of stage whilst we play it was not worth the hassle.
Went back to my Byer opus 69 get it up and running real quick and no problems.
Sold it on ebay.Also never used it much at home.All the reviews on the Neumann seem to be fisrt rate.
The have Rode NT2000 that is great,can't recomend the S1.
Luke
 
Kms 105 is a great mic. AKG C535 is a very good mic. Beta 87 comes in a distant third. I wouldn't recommend stage condensers for a band. For solo vocals/acoustic, etc., I would. High volume levels and dense mixes don't usually work well for condensers. One truly great stage mic that is often overlooked is Shure SM7. You can't hold it in your hand, so it's no good for posturing. However, it is very feedback resistant, and approaches the sound quality of top handheld condensers.-Richie
 
There are lots of good condenser mics for stage use. The KMS105 is the usual favorite. The Beta87 is a solid workhorse. The 535 is a decent mic as well, but watch out for sibilance. On some voices it's perfect, on others not so good.

One that hasn't been mentioned here is the excellent AE5400 from Audio Technica. Or you might be able to find a 4054 or 4055 on the used market. All of these are excellent stage vocal condenser mics. (All three use the same capsule - it's the same one as the 4050).
 
i vote the SM87 - i've found it works much better on female vocals (of the right type of course) than a SM/B 58. it's also quite good on a certain number of male vocals as well.

that said i've never tried the Neumann but have only heard great things about it.
 
Gilliland said:
There are lots of good condenser mics for stage use. The KMS105 is the usual favorite. The Beta87 is a solid workhorse. The 535 is a decent mic as well, but watch out for sibilance. On some voices it's perfect, on others not so good.

One that hasn't been mentioned here is the excellent AE5400 from Audio Technica. Or you might be able to find a 4054 or 4055 on the used market. All of these are excellent stage vocal condenser mics. (All three use the same capsule - it's the same one as the 4050).
Click to expand...

Good call on the AT4054 and AT4055, which can be real bargains as they go for @$140-160 or so used last I looked. While they have the same capsule as the AT4050 and the AE5400, one is rolled off (4054) and the other isn't (4055). I have several of the 4054s and they are great mics. See this article:

http://mixguides.com/microphones/reviews/audio_audiotechnica_may/

The AE5400 has a roll-off switch and 10db pad switch.

I also really like the Audix VX-10 which IMHO is quite comparable to the Neumann for sound, and though pricey, is somewhat less expensive than the Neumann ($479 vs. $629 street). I've picked these up used on e-bay for between $220 and $350 (NIB).

Having said all this. You really ought to try the Audix OM5, OM6 and OM7 and see if any of those will do it for you. Good feedback rejection and sound that is pretty darn close to a stage condenser and a whole lot cheaper - especially if this is a high volume stage situation.
 
KMS105 If the singer does not eat the mic ( can cause it to cut out)

Senn E865 Nearly as good as the Neumann

AKG C900 Much overlooked, needs good LF EQ on desk

These are all in my Live box

Tony
 
How's the Neumann for live recording? I'm looking for something for a jazz vocalist.
 
I like the AKG 535 but haven't tried much else. Condensers sound best on live vocals. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The problem is, they are hard to control. Most sound techs at small to medium sized venues are not used to them. In fact, many of them try to keep their boards pretty much set up for an SM58 or the like.

Another problem that makes them hard to control is that a lot of the hand held contact can create some pretty boomy, troublesome noises. Even the mics that are not that sensitive to that sort of thing are still much more sensitive than dynamic mic's.

I wouldn't even bother with a condenser unless you're playing world class venues. (I would be curious to hear from someone like wilkee - who sounds more experience using them live - as to just how much trouble they have or have not caused.)

This is all just my typically misguided, ill-conceived opinion however. (That should be my signature.)
 
the inhabitant said:
I wouldn't even bother with a condenser unless you're playing world class venues. (I would be curious to hear from someone like wilkee - who sounds more experience using them live - as to just how much trouble they have or have not caused.)

This is all just my typically misguided, ill-conceived opinion however. (That should be my signature.)
Click to expand...


I started using them about 4 years ago when I had a good deal on some E865's which I snapt up. This was followed by the AKG C900's and just six months ago I purchased a couple of the KMS105,s.

The only Mic that I have had real problems is the KMS, with singers that are prone to spit a lot into the Mic then I have found that they will suddenly cut out. This is a known problem with this Mic and Neumann are pretty quick to fit a new capsule if you have this problem.

With regards handling noises I find that they are no worse than a good dynamic.

The other issue to be aware of is cables and connections. Because you are always running with phantom power any intermittant loss of contact will show itself as a bloody great bang out of the P.A. system.

The advantages of thse Mics is probably not realised untill the overall quality of the whole P.A. system reaches a certain standard and for some types of music it would never make a differrence i.e. if you ears are being pounded with 110db then the quality of a SM58 is perfectly suitable.

I do a lot of folk/blues events and working with the Neumann I find that the improvement over the usual suspects CAN be very impressive with a number of artists aproaching me after the gigs to thank me for the vocal sound.

Tony

p.s. I always use an SP B1 on guitar cabs. with very little EQ I can get a sound that is very similar to the actual cab sound.
 
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Oktava MK-011 from the soundroom.com, that's the only place I've seen it...supposedly built like an MK-012, but for use on stage specifically...about $129-$150 or so...and Russian!!

neat!
 
Quote from the inhabitant-

"I like the AKG 535 but haven't tried much else. Condensers sound best on live vocals. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise."

I'll tell you otherwise- Not all vocalists were created equal. Mics are like shoes- They either fit or they don't. Some vocalists, including some very good ones, weren't meant to use a condenser, live or otherwise. I can sing through condensers, but in a live setting I find them a little unforgiving. SM7 works for me. It's not a handheld mic, but oddly enough, I usually have a guitar in my hands anyway. The right mic is the one that makes the singer you have sound good, and some singers simply do better with a dynamic.-Richie
 
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