Condenser or Censure?

[sunkhole]

Hello,

First, I know your "head/brain-voice" is different from your projected voice.

I've always thought I've been an above mediocre vocalist, and many people have complimented me on my singing voice.

I have a very bass heavy voice, though it's deep, I wouldn't consider it incredibly deep.

When singing I've been compared to Frank Sinatra for my croon, and have a very blusey/soulful outward voice. I also have a quality (ability, on command) with which I can make my voice sound very hollow while still being very present, making it "creepy/haunting." (I don't know if that's unique, just giving background information.) My range isn't great. I'm mostly into folk rock/blues/alternative stylings.

I'd not been into serious recording until some friends approached me about forming a band, but I have a problem.

Note: I've not purchased any "(semi)professional" equipment as of yet.

When I record myself using a standard (cheap) microphone the bass in my voice almost completely disappears, leaving me with a much less "rich" voice.

And generally, it's not what I hear. Nor does it seem to be what others hear.

Even speaking I'm not able to (immediately) recognize my voice, and most others can't either.

Is this strange or a common problem with cheap equipment?

Or do I really just suck?

Condenser or Censure?

New mic or quit while I still have my dignity.

I'm looking for a Condenser mic that will put some of the bass and richness back into my (heard, by myself and others, stressing this point) voice when recorded -- also maybe smooth things out a bit.

I'd also be interested in recommendations for a firewire audio interface with phantom power.

Budget will be based around what's going to do what for me, but I'd like to keep it as inexpensive as possible.

I don't have any samples as they'd be useless with the state of things now;

But I was singing a song I had written (windows open) and my neighbour actually knocked on my door to ask who I was listening to, because it sounded great -- I'd really like to be confident in my voice, incidents like this make me feel good, but actual recordings make me want to quit before I've really started.

Long post, probably rambled, wanted to get some points across, hope you can help.

Thank you.

 

[MessianicDreams]

listening to your recorded voice for the first time can be a very daunting thing - so don't be surprised if your voice does sound a little different.


it might help if you could post a clip of your voice, but i would suggest getting a better microphone. also, how close do the microphone do you deliver your lines? most microphones display what is known as "proximity effect" which means the bass content increases as you get closer to the microphone.

if it is some fault of the gear, some more specific gear would be helpful - what medium are you recording to? etc etc.


if other people have commented on how good your voice sounds then i reckon it's the gear rather than your voice that needs to be tweaked!

 

[Minion]

You might Consider getting a Tube Condenser Mic as they are Known for adding a Nice Deep Warmth to the Voice....

I suggest that you go into a Music Store and Try out a Bunch of Mics and see what sounds best for your Voice...

As for an Interface with Phantom power you might look into the "Presonus FirePod" or the "Mackie Onyx 400F" ,Both are Mulit input Fireire Interfaces with Many Good Pre-amps and Phantom Power....

Cheers

 

[sjjohnston]

Even speaking I'm not able to (immediately) recognize my voice, and most others can't either.

In my experience, almost everyone I know at all well can easily recognize my voice (and that of everyone else they know) over the phone ... and that's after it's been picked up by a tiny 50-cent mic, compressed, digitized, companded, band-limited and otherwise abused, and ultimately played back over a 50-cent speaker.

So, either (i) you're using really, really bad equipment and really, really bad technique, (ii) your voice has an unusually recognizable element that does not survive ordinary electronic "treatment" or (iii) some combination of serendipity, magic and psychology is coming into play.

That said, once you get past the problem of recording with enough fidelity to make your voice even recognizable, when you're trying to make a voice sound really musical, different mics do seem to work slightly better or worse with different voices. The differences are pretty subtle, though if you're trying to make music, subtle differences mean a lot (just ask anyone who's ever played, or bought, a violin). The suggestion to try some out, either at a store or at someone's studio (if you can finagle such a thing) is a good one, I think.

Also: while it's true that

1 - most people think their own voice, heard out in the air the way other people hear it, sounds much worse than it sounds inside their own head,

it's also true that:

2 - most people think their own voice (out in the air) sounds much worse than other people think it sounds.

Now, if I could figure out why I look different in photographs than I do in the mirror ....

 

[sunkhole]

(ii) your voice has an unusually recognizable element that does not survive ordinary electronic "treatment" or (iii) some combination of serendipity, magic and psychology is coming into play.

Also: while it's true that

1 - most people think their own voice, heard out in the air the way other people hear it, sounds much worse than it sounds inside their own head,

it's also true that:

2 - most people think their own voice (out in the air) sounds much worse than other people think it sounds.

I think you've hit on some good points with your post.

My voice has never sounded the same over the telephone and I constantly have people that I've known for years asking "Who is this?" when I answer my own phone or call them.

As for your statements on how voices are percieved, I agree and have thought that I may be being a little too self critical; my "problem" doesn't make my singing sound horrendous but it certainly loses much of its fat, rich, and sultry sound.

I don't know what the trouble is, perhaps it is equipment, but I plan to rectify that.

I'll definitely try some different mics.

Thanks.

 

[Nakatira]

I remember, when I first started singing "recording", I didn`t recognize my voice.

Most people that have talked to me before hearing me sing, has diffeculties beliving its me singing.

So I think your "problem" is quite normal

 

[Daniel Reichman]

Your ears, nose and throat are all connected, so you are hearing your voice with the absolute most proximity effect possible. When you record, you are missing all the sounds that are going directly from your vocal cords and resonating cavities to your ears.

No mic is going to make you sound the same as what you sound like in your head. A 'cheap' mic (one with considerable bass rolloff) is definitely going to thin your voice out. What mic have you tried yourself on, and what have you recorded onto?

I've recorded quite a few amateur singers who aren't used to being recorded who can't believe that what they hear recorded is really them. It might pay to do some live singing in front of a band or karaoke to get used to what you sound like through a P.A. system, as this is closer to what your recorded voice will be like.

 

[cpc]

i remember i had this problem when i first started home recording and recording my voice to backing tracks. (im not sure if you're doing that or accapella) i knew i was a good singer, but whenever i recorded it sounded bad. when i would record to backing tracks i eventually found these to be the main problems

1-i had some recording fright, i had no problem singing in the open, or for a bunch of people, but when i was by myself with headphones and recording it would make me hesitent , tense , less confident, and not at my best

2-i would listen to the backing track too loud while singing/recording, making me sing too loud and/or out of tune

3-i hadnt yet learned how to mix well, and my untreated (uncompressed, unreverb) vocals would standout horribly from the backing track making them sound bad, when in fact they were good and just mixed poorly.

4-i was often singing and coming up with new material that i was unfamiliar with while recording, make sure you're familiar with what you're singing.

ever since i figured out these problems i've been very pleased with my recordings. its amazing how good of recordings you can get with only a couple hundred bucks of equipment these days.

get some courage, go up to a bunch of people, and sing something you're familiar with for them, and see what their opinions are. if they say it sounds good, then you know for sure it's something to do with you recordings or equipment. then get some more courage and play them your recordings of the same thing and see if they think the same thing. (you may have done this already, just giving you ideas)

 

[sunkhole]

Your ears, nose and throat are all connected, so you are hearing your voice with the absolute most proximity effect possible. When you record, you are missing all the sounds that are going directly from your vocal cords and resonating cavities to your ears.

No mic is going to make you sound the same as what you sound like in your head. A 'cheap' mic (one with considerable bass rolloff) is definitely going to thin your voice out. What mic have you tried yourself on, and what have you recorded onto?

I've recorded quite a few amateur singers who aren't used to being recorded who can't believe that what they hear recorded is really them. It might pay to do some live singing in front of a band or karaoke to get used to what you sound like through a P.A. system, as this is closer to what your recorded voice will be like.

Yes, I realize the voice I hear is not the voice others hear.

I don't want the mic to make me sound the same as I do in my head I want it to make me sound the same as I do in other's heads.

The mic I've been singing into is absolute garbage, going straight into my soundcard, but I didn't want to try to fool myself into thinking it was all the equipment's fault without some proof (thus the original question).

I've done some singing through a P.A. system and it sounded much better, but then it would, with the proximity effect you described mixing in.

(None of that was meant in a snappy tone.)

4-i was often singing and coming up with new material that i was unfamiliar with while recording, make sure you're familiar with what you're singing.

get some courage, go up to a bunch of people, and sing something you're familiar with for them, and see what their opinions are. if they say it sounds good, then you know for sure it's something to do with you recordings or equipment. then get some more courage and play them your recordings of the same thing and see if they think the same thing. (you may have done this already, just giving you ideas)

Yes, as I said, I've had many people tell me I have a (better than) good voice. I'm fairly open about singing and do it all the time.

"4." was a good point, I'm not very familiar with what I'm singing when I'm "testing the waters." It's all been a cappella.

For a Tube Condenser I was looking at the Rode NTK, anyone have an objection to that? It's a little pricey, however. What should I be looking at for something a little cheaper (condenser but obviously not tube)? I will be testing these mics before buying but I'd like some ideas.

 

[cpc]

well if others say you sing good, then i dont know what proof you're looking for that you dont suck, and why youre asking that question if you've already answered it, its obviously your equipment. any decent microphone should be good enough to not make you sound bad , now it depends what type of microphone you're looking for and how much you're wanting to get into it.

good basic mics for 100 dollars are

sm58, handheld ,punchy, mostly for live use, but can record decently especially for rock singers

studio projects b-1, condenser, more clear and accurate, generally better for recording vocals

also what soundcard are you using?, if you order an m-audio mobile pre soundcard from musicians friend they give you a free mxl 990 condenser mic.

if you cant get at least a decent recording with any of these mics, then it goes back to the singer itself and the performance you're giving for the microphone. if you have poor mic technique make sure you "compress" your recordings somewhat, so the song is balanced and not louder and standing out in parts which would make it sound bad. and maybe add some slight reverb.

if you want to sound like a professionally produced cd, you're going to have to spend the money for the proper equipment, but for only a couple hundred bucks (studio projects b-1, mobile pre) , and a year of familiarizing myself with recording and mixing, im surprised how good i can get my songs to sound. i'd say about 80% as good as professionally recorded songs. but the other 20% is going to cost you thousands of dollars. like i said, it all depends how far you want to go with home recording.

 

[daav]

See if you can get access to a few mics and try out different test recordings and see what kind of variety you get. Also make sure you are monitoring properly, listn to play back with speakers and then try headphones, and other optios if avialble. Whtih out knowing the recording chain it might be tough as well.

I have a deep voice, and though i can;t sing for crap, i have found several cheap mics that still give a very strong deepness/reichness to my voice (recording soken stuff or even my laughable atempts at singing).

EV RE27 and the Oktava 319 I have both have this characteristic. You will find that "broadcast" mics (and there are many that corssover to the studio) often will do this as well as dynamics that have strong proximety affect.

Daav