Condenser mics

H

Hasse

New member
Hi
My problem is I am recording acocustic guitar via M-Box 2 . I mostly play bluegrass instrumental. I use 2 good condenser mic´s, and tried many mic position low cut etc.
I am not satifisfied with the sound quality, It sound not at all like an accoustic guitar it souns very digitalized. Will it help to put in a pre amp before connecting to my M-box 2.

hope to hear from you out there.

best regards

HaK
 
well what mics are you using?

are you recording so that it records in stereo / two seperate tracks and then panning them opposite (1 hard left 1 hard right?)
 
Yes - knowing what you're using and even hearing a clip if you have it will help.

Small diaphragm condensers are usually preferred over large diaphragm condensers (but not always!) for acoustic guitar -- under certain conditions, a large diagphragm condenser will not pick up up enough transient detail, and the recording will sound flat and weird, sort of in an digitally-ized bad way (even though the yuckiness was created in the analog realm). But that's speculation of course - more info will help.
 
Condenser mic

I use a SE-Electronics SE3 small condenser mic placed ca. 30cm from the guitar on the treble side of the soundhole (near the neck joint) with a low cut at 10db. Then I use a SE-Electronics Z5600 tuibe mic (with a preamp) at the end of the guitar about 30-50 cm from the guitar. Normaly i pan left right. But that depends if it is rytmn or lead.
I don´t have any problem when I record vocal with the Z5600 mic. It sounds great.
Do you have any opinion abot the M-box 2 could that be the problem with the built in preamps are they good? Will I get a better sound quality if I buy a Digirack 003+. Are these preamps better???
Perhaps use 2 small condenser mics.

Best regards
Hasse
 
Don't change gear. A professional engineer could get a great sound from that gear. Try using one mic instead of two - the SE3. Try other things too.
 
Consider matching the two mic distances might improve their phase relationship.

Low cut on the (thinner sounding?) neck joint one?
Room set-up, reflection control, stay away from close hard surfaces?
 
Hasse said:
a low cut at 10db.
Click to expand...
The 10db part makes me wonder whether you're talking about a pad or a low cut - usually, the low cut is expressed in terms of frequency - like 70hz or something. If it is a 10 db pad, you probably want to disengage it for the acoustic - you'll get more acoustic sound relative to the other sound (noise) emitting factors in your signal chain.

Does your room sound OK? If so, you could try backing the tube mic off some and puttingit more directly in front maybe 5 feet away.
 
I'll echo the earlier post suggesting you stick to just the SE3. Another mic could introduce phase issues that you'll be able to tackle with more experience. I'd suggest 3 postions:
1. 8-10 inches off the 12th fret
2. 8-10 inches a couple of inches behind the bridge.
3. over the right (picking) shoulder down towards the guitar (give a sound similar to what you hear.

I don't suggest using the low cut of the SE3, since it's a bright mic to begin with. I'm not 100% certain this couldn't be contributing to the digital edge that you hear. For less than $100, I've had great success with the MXL 603.

I also wouldn't suggest spending any more money on Digidesign preamps. "Upgrading" within their line will yeild minimal results. I think your mic position and mic selection will be the keys to getting a good sound.
 
Condenser mic

Thanks for all the replies. I will have all your suggestions and input in mind the next time I record. Thanks again.

Best regards
Hasse
 
I have the same basic problems as the OP. I experimented on the weekend by recording about 6 different preamp settings and mic positions. Most of the results were too boomy and sounding hardly at all like a nice acoustic sound. Very digitized, same as the OP. My setup is:

Martin DX1
Art MPA Gold
CAD m177
AKG Perception 170

I set the +48, engage the input level to full and the analogue boost to a reasonable level so that the fader indicates about -12db in Sonar. However, most mic placements just gave me this harsh sounding, messy recording, digitized, boomy result. If I move the mics further away I don't get enough volume from the recording. If I engage the +20 boost on the preamp I end up with a very messy digitized sound that seems to love to pick up any imperfection in strum, playing style. (It is likely my playing style that sucks causing all my problems).

But basically, it's like the set up and (I tried many kinds of mic positions including over the shoulder) settings I use seem to record every imperfection. It's like my chain is set to capture and is expert at capturing the exact sound you don't want...all the imperfections.

Maybe it's the guitar too. Martins are apparently boomier than say a Taylor generally.

I dunno. I read some fella yesterday saying he spent 3 days recording acoustic guitar using all kinds of set ups/ mics/ positions. Said he learned a lot. I think that's what you need to do...put in the time to test everything.
 
more distance

Hasse,

I sometimes use dynamic omni mics an inch or two from the guitar. I really think this is too close for cardiod condensers. In the big mic thread Harvey talks about near field, medium field, and far field where medium field is defined with relation to the size of the instrument. so if a guitar is 2-3 ft. long your medium field is 2-3 ft. away.

When you get into near field with cardiod mics all kinds of wonky things can happen.

So for a start try taking that SDC and moving it a little further away. The most energetic part of the guitar is the twelfth fret. The mellowest, bassiest, woodiest part is the wood around the bridge. I also like the over the shoulder and with some mics below the guitar pointing straight up works.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Monkey Allen said:
.. Very digitized, same as the OP...

..I set the +48, engage the input level to full and the analogue boost to a reasonable level so that the fader indicates about -12db in Sonar. However, most mic placements just gave me this harsh sounding, messy recording, digitized, boomy result. If I move the mics further away I don't get enough volume from the recording. If I engage the +20 boost on the preamp I end up with a very messy digitized sound that seems to love to pick up any imperfection in strum, playing style. (It is likely my playing style that sucks causing all my problems).

But basically, it's like the set up and (I tried many kinds of mic positions including over the shoulder) settings I use seem to record every imperfection. It's like my chain is set to capture and is expert at capturing the exact sound you don't want...all the imperfections.

Maybe it's the guitar too. Martins are apparently boomier than say a Taylor generally..
Click to expand...
1- You know yours sounds like the OP's? :rolleyes::)

2- What is digitized' anyway? Do you both have the same A/D? (-is 'MBox 2' that crappy? (are you guys running the A/D clocks internal?

"If I move the mics further away I don't get enough volume from the recording."
3- You have to have the source sounding good, (new strings/really in tune?) and the mics need to go where they sound good. If on top of that you need to slip in some eq to dial it in than so be it, but distance controls size, perspective, proximity effect, amount of room vs drier up front' sound, not record level.
What is 'not enough volume for recording'? At 24 bit you could be at -20 average (or more) and you room and mic will likely still be the nosiest thing there.
 
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