Compressor, Preamp, or what?

E

edwardiii

New member
Hi all, first post here.

I use a Tascam 424 MKIII cassette 4 track to record acoustic guitar and vocals. My recordings sound decent, but they're not very loud. I'm on a tight budget, around $100, and I'm looking for something to fatten up the sound, both of the acoustic and the vocals. I'm torn between getting a preamp or a compressor. I'm also interested in a unit that might improve the sound of older recordings during mixdown - so a compressor is what I'm leaning towards. Folly?

Style is along the lines of Nick Drake, Marc Eitzel, early Dylan, folky but edgy. I like a clean but warm sound, don't mind some character / coloring, but definitely want to avoid anything sounding overly processed. Acoustic guitar is mic'd, no pickup. At some point I'd like to get a Fishman Rare Earth humbucker, but mainly for gigging. I don't like the sound of pickups on acoustics.

Anyway, here's the gear I'm considering:

ART Tube PAC: I'd be willing to swap out the stock tube with a 12AU7 to get a better sound. Pro: both a pre and a comp. Con: might have to switch tubes a number of times to find the best sounding one. Never can tell with tubes.

Nady CL-5000: Have heard some good things about this compressor, but bad things about Nady in general.

FNR RNC 1773: A little out of my budget range, but I hear so many good things about the unit that it's still in the running.

DMP3: Same as the RNC.

Behringer MIC100/MIC200: This is in the "let's just get something cheap and move on with life" category. Some people seem to get by with them.

I guess I could knock over a liquor store and get both the DMP3 and the FNR, but I'd like to avoid such drastic measures. So... compressor or preamp?
 
I would get a decent pre.. I think that would make the biggest difference in your sound..

A good pre amp and a good mic can make a huge difference.

Are you using the built in pre's on the MKIII? What mic?
 
The DMP-3 is a great preamp, I'd prolly go that way. I assume the 424 MkIII has line ins? No sense in going through an external pre and then through the (presumably shitty?) pres in the Tascam.

I saw Eitzel in April over here playing with AMC again. That guys a real one off, got to shake his hand after the show too.
 
edwardiii said:
Hi all, first post here.

I use a Tascam 424 MKIII cassette 4 track to record acoustic guitar and vocals. My recordings sound decent, but they're not very loud. I'm on a tight budget, around $100, and I'm looking for something to fatten up the sound, both of the acoustic and the vocals. I'm torn between getting a preamp or a compressor. I'm also interested in a unit that might improve the sound of older recordings during mixdown - so a compressor is what I'm leaning towards. Folly?

Style is along the lines of Nick Drake, Marc Eitzel, early Dylan, folky but edgy. I like a clean but warm sound, don't mind some character / coloring, but definitely want to avoid anything sounding overly processed. Acoustic guitar is mic'd, no pickup. At some point I'd like to get a Fishman Rare Earth humbucker, but mainly for gigging. I don't like the sound of pickups on acoustics.

Anyway, here's the gear I'm considering:

ART Tube PAC: I'd be willing to swap out the stock tube with a 12AU7 to get a better sound. Pro: both a pre and a comp. Con: might have to switch tubes a number of times to find the best sounding one. Never can tell with tubes.

Nady CL-5000: Have heard some good things about this compressor, but bad things about Nady in general.

FNR RNC 1773: A little out of my budget range, but I hear so many good things about the unit that it's still in the running.

DMP3: Same as the RNC.

Behringer MIC100/MIC200: This is in the "let's just get something cheap and move on with life" category. Some people seem to get by with them.

I guess I could knock over a liquor store and get both the DMP3 and the FNR, but I'd like to avoid such drastic measures. So... compressor or preamp?
Click to expand...

For that amount of $$$, I would go with a compressor. A pre-amp in this price range will do nothing at all to improve your sound. The most dramatic "fattener" will come from careful compression. It will add punch to drums and keep tracks from getting buried in the mix. Get the RNC. It is the only thing on that list that will make a big difference in your tracks and mixes.
 
Thanks for the quick responses! Yes, I should've listed my mics; AKG and Nady cardoids, on the cheap side but the AKG is great for vocals.

Yes I am currently using the pre's on the Tascam, and yes, they are shitty. I do have a stereo input besides the channel strips on the Tascam.

Kevin, Eitzel is a pip. For a morose guy he's funny as hell. His style (at least his solo style) points up part of my conundrum - dynamic acoustic music that can go from very soft to very loud. A pre-amp might make the sound louder, but if I go from a whisper to a scream, I think the pre-amp might force me to peg my levels to the loudest point. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of working experience with pre's or compressors, so my knowledge here is theoretical.

How does the Audio Buddy stack up against the DMP3? Seems like it's more in my price range as far as a pre goes.
 
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edwardiii said:
I guess I could knock over a liquor store and get both the DMP3 and the FNR, but I'd like to avoid such drastic measures. So... compressor or preamp?
Click to expand...


In your current financial situation, I wouldn't expect a whole lot in the new market. You should seriously consider buying used. In fact, I would look at that as probably being your only real option right now.

You mention how you want "a clean yet warm sound ... not overprocessed," etc. At your current level, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about that stuff now. Focus instead on something that plugs in and works, and doesn't totally suck.

Now if sound quality is a concern and you don't mind buying used, I would get on ebay and try and hunt down a used Symetrix 528. It's got a good, clean mic pre, decent compression ... even has some EQ and a de-esser. If you're lucky, it won't set you back more than 150 bucks. And the best part is that it doesn't suck in the least bit. It's ugly as hell :D , but it will get the job done for next to nothing.

If that's still too much for you, then I would recommend looking for a job rather than gear.
 
Aggh, a third option! Are you trying to kill me? ;)

Seriously, the Symetrix does seem like a nice unit, and prolly fits the compressor / pre-amp bill better than the Art Tube PAC. Is this something that could also be used in a mixdown path?

By the way, I'm all set on the job front. Just need help with the wife, mortgage, & two kids front... so I'm definitely looking at used stuff here, but things like RNCs and DMP3s hold onto their resale value pretty well. I'd rather one nice unit (comp or pre) than two substandard ones. Just trying to figure which one will have the most bang for my buck given what I'm trying to do.

The last two auctions for the Symetrix closed for $130 and $202 respectively. And now that Kiauma posted a link to the current auction, that one will go for $250! :)

Thanks again, all these suggestions are great.
 
I use a DBX 286A which is mainly for vocals but i use it for acoustic as well sometimes, it turns out pretty decent results for me, I'll post a sample if u'd like, I know not many people here like the DBX stuff but its cheap it does a decent job I got mine for $100, just another option

forgot to mention in has compressor, gate, de esser, pre amp, u get the idea so it sounds like itd work well for u
 
Frenchc, my only experience with DBX is the built-in noise reduction that's on the Tascam. If you can post a sample that would be great - although sometimes it's hard to tell the contribution of one component since there are many other factors involved (room, mics, recording device, etc).
 
Compress!!!!

The responses that you have had saying compress are correct.
The ones that say pre are not!!!!
If you are looking for power and volume get a compressor!
A pre with your setup up will not do what you want.
Best wishes
Ric
p.s Don't wish to upset anyone as this is my first post, but anyone sugesting pre is talking out of there a---.
 
racleborg said:
The responses that you have had saying compress are correct.
The ones that say pre are not!!!!
If you are looking for power and volume get a compressor!
A pre with your setup up will not do what you want.
Best wishes
Ric
p.s Don't wish to upset anyone as this is my first post, but anyone sugesting pre is talking out of there a---.
Click to expand...
The guy says the pres in the Tascam are 'shitty'. So why is it wrong to suggest he upgrades his preamps?

A compressor will just make his stuff 'shitty' but compressed no? Or do you think a compressor will magically make his preamps sound not shitty? :confused:

I appreciate different people might have different opinions on this but to say you're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong is a tad arrogant in my opinion.
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
The guy says the pres in the Tascam are 'shitty'. So why is it wrong to suggest he upgrades his preamps?

A compressor will just make his stuff 'shitty' but compressed no? Or do you think a compressor will magically make his preamps sound not shitty? :confused:

I appreciate different people might have different opinions on this but to say you're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong is a tad arrogant in my opinion.
Click to expand...


Arrogance aside (yes, a tad), unless these pre's are sound blaster shitty, I'd rather have a compressor to work with, followed soon as possible by a pre upgrade. Yes, compression can work magic on bringing out a wimpy track, and I couldn't imagine doing without it, especially for acoustic gtr/vocal stuff, where even with a nice mic and pre it's difficult to make it sound full and even without compression.
 
comp

The original question is about getting his mixes to sound louder and any engineer who knows anything would say get a compressor, if you want better mike results get a pre, but that wasn't the question!!!
 
yeah I'm not sure how much help a sample would be now that i think about it but I still believe that getting a unit with both a pre amp and compressor would be your best bet, i the pres suck then I'm sure most anything will be better and having a compressor as well will help you out with your problem
 
Wow, drama!

Even in my ignorance I'm sure I need both, but I am trying to prioritize. I don't mind the sound of my current recordings - I've got a nice corner lined with wooden bookshelves, and with a bit of fiddling with mic placement I get a pretty good sound. It's just not a very loud / full sound. The mic pre's on the Tascam are not the greatest, but they do get the job done (even tho I'm pretty sure a dedicated pre would kick their asses).

Logically I was leaning towards a compressor anyways, since a pre-amp will just boost levels without flattening the swings of acoustic gtr or taming soft -> loud vocal dynamics. I think a compressed signal would allow me to crank the levels without clipping. I'm hearing more confirmation of that from quite a few people, so I'll probably keep an eye out for a cheap RNC in the near term.

But the more I look at the Symetrix, the more I like it. Damn that chessrock. ;)

Now play nice everybody!
 
Kevin DeSchwazi said:
A compressor will just make his stuff 'shitty' but compressed no? Or do you think a compressor will magically make his preamps sound not shitty? :confused:
Click to expand...

Compressed shit, I love it!

;)

War
 
I have a Tascam 424MKIII also. I record vocals, drum machine and electric guitar on it. I used to record directly to it using its pre's, but recently got an Alesis Studio 24 board. Now I record the output from the Alesis to the line in on channel 1 and 2 then 3 & 4 for overdubs.... The Alesis does give a bunch more bottom end to the mix.
But I digress....
I bought a TC ELECTRONIC TRIPLE C STEREO MULTIBAND COMPRESSOR which has excellent presets, display, controls etc., bass and treble input and output level.
I found this really helped compress my vocals when recording and I use it all the time for mastering - if you want to call my technique "mastering" (heh heh). I had great results even just using the Tascam (before the Alesis)
Two things to remember
1) It retailed at $999.99 but sells on ebay now (NOS) for about $299.
2) It is discontinued (but then again everything eventually gets discontinued).

I would recommend the Triple C - although it is somewhat above your price range, you can get the mono compressor for about half that used.
 
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