Compressor for live and recording

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RVLVNGDRS

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-Is it worth investing in a DBX160 as a compressor for drums?
-Would it be better than RNC?
-Any suggestions for a compressor that would be in the approximate price range as DBX160?
-And are there certain considerations to take in when choosing a compressor for in-studio as opposed to live?

Thanks to anyone who takes their time to type in the answer to any of my questions.
 
I'd go with the 166 because then you'd also get a Noise Gate as well.

You don't want to compress a kick without gating it first because you'll also be raising the levels of everything else that the mic is picking up.

I haven't used the RNC so I can't comment on it, but I've heard nothing but praise for it - the only drawback I see to it, is that it is stereo, rather than dual mono, meaning there is one set of controls for both channels - which is great for a stereo mix, but not so great if you want to compress two unrelated things separately.


Tim
 
I'd pick different comps for different drums. Are you you looking for a comp for the drum buss, or for the snare or for the kick, or for oh?

The RNC is great on snare... But not too hot on kick, its ok on the buss, but can be dull, (hmm a good candidate for mixing back with thte uncompressed signal). I've not had the pleasure of using a dbx 160. but the 163 is my go to bass drum compressor, unlike tim, i don;t so much like the idea of gating stuff, but that is entirley a matter of opinion. The other thing I do is if I want a fat garage sound, I'll run a mono oh through my Fatman, then maybe re-run the drum busss through it.
 
dr.colossus said:
I'd pick different comps for different drums. Are you you looking for a comp for the drum buss, or for the snare or for the kick, or for oh?

The RNC is great on snare... But not too hot on kick, its ok on the buss, but can be dull, (hmm a good candidate for mixing back with thte uncompressed signal). I've not had the pleasure of using a dbx 160. but the 163 is my go to bass drum compressor, unlike tim, i don;t so much like the idea of gating stuff, but that is entirley a matter of opinion. The other thing I do is if I want a fat garage sound, I'll run a mono oh through my Fatman, then maybe re-run the drum busss through it.
Click to expand...


Ugh, In a live setting? I can't stand going with an ungated kick drum.
I don't normally gate everything, but I'll gate the kick every time, but I heav a special trick on how to do it.

I mic the kick, put a 166 on it, then put a trigger on the kick, and plug the trigger onto the Gate's key input, that way the gate picks up the strike of the mallet against the head, and opens the key on the gate, and lets the audio signal through.
That way, you can set the noise gates settings for the kick drum, and you know for sure that nothing but the kick drum will open the gate.

Keep in mind - the only processors I would normally track with live in the studio, would be the striggered gate on the kick & snare, and a little compression on bass guitar to help control dynamics a little.
by using the trigger, it delivers a virtually perfect drum track every time. (I'm not tightly gating the drums, either.)

Tim
 
Tim Brown said:
I mic the kick, put a 166 on it, then put a trigger on the kick, and plug the trigger onto the Gate's key input
Click to expand...

sorry if this sounds nOOb...but i don't quite understand the meaning of "trigger" here.
 
RVLVNGDRS said:
sorry if this sounds nOOb...but i don't quite understand the meaning of "trigger" here.
Click to expand...


LOL

okay, a drum trigger is used to fire off electronic sounds in a drum sound module.

A trigger mounts on the drum, usually on the rim, and has a contact pickup that is secured against th head - when the head is struck, the trigger picks up the vibrations, and transmits them to the drum sound source.

What I do, is plug a trigger into the Noise Gate's External Key Input - which allows another source to control the Noise Gate, rather than the Internal Key which uses a modified version of the signal passing through the gate.

The Internal Gate sort of "Y"'s the signal being fed into it, and one part remains the audio signal, while another part is used to create a "control" signal, to operate the noise gate.



I hope that helps.


Tim
 
Tim Brown said:
I mic the kick, put a 166 on it, then put a trigger on the kick, and plug the trigger onto the Gate's key input, that way the gate picks up the strike of the mallet against the head, and opens the key on the gate, and lets the audio signal through.
That way, you can set the noise gates settings for the kick drum, and you know for sure that nothing but the kick drum will open the gate.
Click to expand...

That is a really cool trick! Thanks for sharing. :D
 
Sorry Tim... I wasn't thinking "live" at all... my comments a purely re; studio
 
:rolleyes:
RVLVNGDRS said:
do you need the sound module to do this or do you plug the trigger straight to the compressor?

is this it? http://cgi.ebay.com/Pintech-RS-5-Dr...393799413QQcategoryZ10175QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Click to expand...


Well, you could use that kind of trigger, but you are asking for trouble and here's why.

That type of trigger mounts to the head with silicone. When the head vibrates, the trigger moves with it. You need one where the trigger is isolated from the head, so that the head moves against the trigger.

Something like these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Trigger-Perfect...393592174QQcategoryZ38069QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/DDrum-TKIT-Acou...389347709QQcategoryZ10173QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I prefer the ddrum model.

You do not need the sound module to do this, you just need a Compressor/ Gate with a External Key input, such as the dbx 1665 or the Behringer Intelligate. The Behringer quad gate (4-channel) does not have an external key for the gate. Sadly, I found that out after I bought it. :rolleyes:

You need the gate to clean up the signal, then you can compress it, otherwise - when you compress it, you also wind up with all sorts of crap in your kick drum's channel.


Tim
 
tourettes5139 said:
That is a really cool trick! Thanks for sharing. :D
Click to expand...


Thanks! :D

It's one of the things I came up with, thanks to playing with a bass player who has a 3,000 watt bass amp and eight 15" speakers. LOL

Our guitarist had 2 full stacks, and my bass player decided to get the gigantic bass rig to compete with him.

It was kind of funny, people would come to see us, and go "OH MY GOD!"




Tim
 
dr.colossus said:
Sorry Tim... I wasn't thinking "live" at all... my comments a purely re; studio
Click to expand...


Well, I've always been recording everything in 1 room, and usually the basic tracks go down live - so that was my only method of really isolating the kick drum.

These days, now that I have a good quality ddrum system - I'd just trigger the kick most of the time.

My brother and I are going to be working on some material soon, and when I do I'll post some recording samples of what I'm getting.


Tim
 
Last edited:
This is very helpful to me, thank you very much for all the advice.

Just a few more...

-Are the Trigger Perfects at least almost as good as the DDrums? Because if so, why would i spend 10 times more...

Last one

-Are you speaking for live, in-studio, or both?

thank you once again
 
RVLVNGDRS said:
This is very helpful to me, thank you very much for all the advice.

Just a few more...

-Are the Trigger Perfects at least almost as good as the DDrums? Because if so, why would i spend 10 times more...

Last one

-Are you speaking for live, in-studio, or both?

thank you once again
Click to expand...

Same basic design, but the ddrum models are little more stable I think, but I'm biased because I have been a ddrum user for over 15 years. :p LOL


Tim
 
would anyone recommend DBX 1066? or should i just go with DBX 166?

and Tim, your suggestion for 166, is that XL or not?

thx
 
whoop...nvrmnd...i just saw that 1066 is stereo...my bad...

but the other question stays : what's the difference between DBX166 and DBX166 XL...if any. (and im guessing XL doesn't mean Extra large)
 
dr.colossus said:
I'd pick different comps for different drums. Are you you looking for a comp for the drum buss, or for the snare or for the kick, or for oh?

The RNC is great on snare... But not too hot on kick, its ok on the buss, but can be dull, (hmm a good candidate for mixing back with thte uncompressed signal). I've not had the pleasure of using a dbx 160. but the 163 is my go to bass drum compressor, unlike tim, i don;t so much like the idea of gating stuff, but that is entirley a matter of opinion. The other thing I do is if I want a fat garage sound, I'll run a mono oh through my Fatman, then maybe re-run the drum busss through it.
Click to expand...
Dr. I also have a 163 but its a 163X. Is yours? What would be the difference? I do use mine on kick and have had good luck. I thought I was a freak for liking it as its just a 50 dollar comp used. It does punch it up.
Jim
 
RVLVNGDRS said:
whoop...nvrmnd...i just saw that 1066 is stereo...my bad...

but the other question stays : what's the difference between DBX166 and DBX166 XL...if any. (and im guessing XL doesn't mean Extra large)
Click to expand...

The XL is just a newer version, that's all. I have a 166a and 2 166xl's. I can't tell any audio difference between them. The XL's have "detented" pots, meaning that they have click-points, where the older models just had smooth turning pots instead.

the 1066 is newer and does more - it also costs about twice as much as the 166.
The 160 is a mono compressor, and does not have a noise gate on it.

Out of all of the economical rackmounted gates tht I've used, I like the basic ones that are built into the 166's the best. I wish dbx would isolate just the gate and make an 8-channel noise gate, because those gates are rell all most of us need for live use.



Tim
 
ok...well im convinced now...im gonna get myself a 166...

is 249.99US a good deal for a brand new one?
 
jmorris said:
Dr. I also have a 163 but its a 163X. Is yours? What would be the difference? I do use mine on kick and have had good luck. I thought I was a freak for liking it as its just a 50 dollar comp used. It does punch it up.
Jim
Click to expand...

I have two 163's and a 163X. The 163 (pair) is made in the USA, has round LEDs, no output gain knob on the front, no DI and RCA connectors. The 163X is made in China (its newer) it has square LEDs, a DI input on the front panel, and an output gain knob on the front pannel. They are screen printed a little differently too, bbut I won;t go into that :D. THe USA163 is a little cleaner sounding than the 163X, and has a tiny bit more "presence". The difference in sound is minimal, but noticable when you test them side by side. I especially love the 163 on guitar amps.
 
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