Compressor for Acoustic Guitar and Male Vocals

[XLR]

This thread has gone 3 pages past where it needed to and made a simple problem convoluted. Here’s a summary of what I’ve said in it:

For a natural acoustic guitar sound recording a player with a wide dynamic range:
...Avoid compressing ac gtr while tracking, but if you must do it, try an RNC in supernice mode. It controls dynamcis but leaves the highs sounding pretty natural. On acoustic though you're way better off doing any processing after the fact, and a multiband used well always sounds better to me than a broadband comp on acoustic.
...Use volume automation when mixing
...Try varied mic positioning for fingerpicking/strumming, or doing different takes for the soft and loud ac gtr passages - changing mic position for each.
...Use consistent playing technique. If one isn’t getting consistent results during quiet fingerpicking, the best thing you can do is fix it at the source.
...You have to experiment and see what works with your guitar sound and taste. There are many solutions... Try everything and decide for yourself. The main point is to do the tracking by using good mic technique for whatever's being played rather than finding a processing fix for ineffective mic'ing.
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Before commenting at the beginning of the thread I listened to the OPs tracks at his site and at CD Baby. Vocals sound good as does the writing and arranging. Acoustic gtr sounds too compressed and unnatural in both strumming and fingerpicked sections in the several tracks I heard. This of course is just my own taste as I prefer a natural sound on ac gtr in this type of music.

Re tracking softly played steel string, the following tracks were done with a small-bodied acoustic strung with slinky .009’s. (doesn’t get softer than this). No broadband compression used. All had gain staging done so that even loud strumming with heavy gauge strings wouldn’t have clipped anything. I do this as a rule when I record myself so I have a huge safety margin to avoid clipping a decent take.

mk41 mic at 2 ft. http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=11936

$30 naiant mic, 2 ft. http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=11937

ECM8000 mic. Mic’s don’t come more noisy than that old ECM8000.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=11938

 

[JTC111]

well...i can for sure see that as in my world the musician is always right...and to me as a recording dude, asking someone to change something pre microphone is insulting until i develop a rapport with them and they understand what I am saying without them taking offense and playing the 'artist card.'

I'm not playing the artist card. I'm not saying "that's my style," or "that's my tone." I was simply curious about the differences between high end and low end compressors because I have no experience with the former and I was wondering what the high end gear brings to the table.

You're asking a question and you basically want a Guitar Center answer of "DUDE…this compressor rocks…it will take care of you. Your problems will be solved and your tracks will sound like a warmer creamier Jimmy Page." it's not that easy.

You're really off base here. I wasn't asking for a compressor recommendation. I was asking anyone to explain to me the difference between a cheap sub-compact and a luxury car. I tried to answer questions that were asked of me, but my intent was always to just get some idea of the high-end/low-end differences. And if I start sounding anything like Jimmy Page then something is very wrong. I only play acoustic.

look at how you are approaching the problem you have described:

1) You aren't telling the board how you are using the compressor you have now to try to fix your dilemna. As such, you don't explain the results you are getting and why they are not working. How can we say what will help you as far as a compressor goes? you haven't even tried helping yourself.

Umm, yeah... I did when I was asked. And I'll repeat it again, I wasn't asking for a recommendation.

2) You skip answering the functional and fundamental questions and immediately ask about spending more money on a piece of gear thinking that it will solve your problems. It most likely won't.

I don't think I refused to answer any questions, although all the questions did pull the thread to a place I hadn't intended it to go. And since I'm neither a 15-year-old kid nor an idiot, I never thought that the price of a piece of gear would, but itself, be a determining factor in the sound produced.

3) Your technique is what is being recorded

I disagree. If we were talking about a dvd, perhaps, but without the visual aspect I don't think you can accurately say audio recordings are recordings of technique. Music is sound. Technique can determine how well or poorly it is played, but what's recorded is sound. And I'll point out the obvious... technique varies from player to player... players of equal talent can have very different technique.

…it is certainly a part of the equation, until they develop a sample to sample acoustic guitar replacer for pro tools like they did with drums, which will probably not sound very good anyway. The musicians who I work with who get the best results either listen to the speakers and correct themselves OR they ask my advice and follow my suggestions on playing…as I've encountered the problem before and can tell them what can work and what doesn’t…not that I'm not open to learn new tricks…but I have plenty of chops to throw at your problem. You want it to sound it's best? Adapt to the microphone like the world's best musicians do.

Recording requires certain level of maturity in as far as you have to be able to somewhat accept your results as a mirror of your playing technique. Use this mirror to learn and grow as a player. It really has nothing to do with making the engineering job easier on the fat guy with the ponytail behind the board…it has to do with getting what you want. You want a compressor to thicken up or de-noise your acoustic guitar sound if it's played quietly? If you find something - let me know. I could tell you that you can buy a nice compressor for 3.5 K and you'll be set. You won't. How do I know? I have 12K worth of them.

All that said - if I had a know it all guitarist to deal with in real life - and I have had plenty which I serves with a smile thank you very much-

The parts I bolded... how do I take those in any other way except condescending?

the Compellor does sound like a good idea to try. I believe the idea in that box is to have 3 different compressors chained together…same as the super nice mode in the RNC which i used. The RNC will cost you 175. the noises in your playing will certainly be brought up with the rest of the low level stuff. If you want to get rid of those noises in your playing I highly recommend a deesser ala the dbx 263…which can be had for 50 dollars. stick that after the compressor to get rid of your finger noise as much as you’d like...provided you know how to use it. Then stick a limiter after everything else to control your peaks. One of the best limiters I've found for this stuff is the RNC as you can fine tune the attack and release …another 175. If the Compellor appeals to you - check out the Dominator…it is the brickwall limiter in the aphex world. If you want to spend more money on your problem you might get better results due to the signal path…but functionally, this stuff is as good as anything else out there outside of the box...provided of course you know how to use it.

Laters,

Mike

I think some people who've come to this thread late are posting under a misconception. I don't have any issues with noise in my playing. The "noise" issues were in reference to a very specific problem that I had with one song on my first cd (1 song out of 14) where there was a pretty big volume difference in the guitar parts. The engineer and I eventually overcame the problem but it was a head scratcher for awhile as we tried a few solutions before settling on one that worked best.

I'm pretty new to this board and I'm glad I found it. It's a great resource and I'm learning a ton. I'm by no means an expert as far as recording is concerned but I've been playing guitar and writing songs for 30+ years and have been a pretty active performer for the past 10. I've shared the stage with some well-known people in my genre, headlined some smaller venues, and my cd was lucky enough to get some airplay (and it's pretty damn special to see your name on a set list alongside names like Dylan, Springsteen, Shindell, etc.). I say this because all this hammering on about technique is getting a bit exasperating (you should bow down to the superior pun in that sentence).

I probably bear some responsibility as the OP for allowing the thread to go off on a tangent. I guess that happens around here though.

Anyway, I appreciate the positive suggestions you made at the end. I just wish I didn't have to block all those shots before I got there.

 

[JTC111]

This thread has gone 3 pages past where it needed to and made a simple problem convoluted.

XLR is right. All I wanted to know is what I could expect from a high end compressor as opposed to a low end compressor. I think that question got answered eventually, so I'm ending my involvement in this thread. The next person who posts here becomes the thread's baby-daddy.

Now let's get back to the important stuff.

 

[NL5]

XLR is right. All I wanted to know is what I could expect from a high end compressor as opposed to a low end compressor. I think that question got answered eventually, so I'm ending my involvement in this thread. The next person who posts here becomes the thread's baby-daddy.

Now let's get back to the important stuff.

"What to expect" is FAR more dependent on knowing how you are using it than the actual piece of gear, so all the tangents are actually pretty helpful in answering the question. Otherwise, as Daisy pointed out, just as with anything in life, the better something is, the more expensive - I really don't think you needed anyone to tell you that. Using a compressor wrong, or not even really understanding the basic fundamentals of recording/compression would certainly negate the added benefits of a good compressor, or any piece of gear for that matter. Compression can do amazing things to tracks, no doubt. It really brings out the overtone/harmonics of an instrument.

 

[bigtoe]

Jim - honestly dude - i'm not trying to rattle your cage - just answer your question. if you don't like my directness...well, my apologies. sincerely.

"I've shared the stage with some well-known people in my genre, headlined some smaller venues, and my cd was lucky enough to get some airplay (and it's pretty damn special to see your name on a set list alongside names like Dylan, Springsteen, Shindell, etc.). I say this because all this hammering on about technique is getting a bit exasperating (you should bow down to the superior pun in that sentence)."

i could give a major rats ass if it has taken you 30 years to release a cd, get some minor airplay and try to figure out how to record...get over yourself and shave your silly mustache.

later,
Mike

 

[XLR]

XLR is right. All I wanted to know is what I could expect from a high end compressor...

Except that I used the word "convoluted" to mean something different than the fact that you got answers different than what you wanted.

 

[MOFO Pro]

Except that I used the word "convoluted" to mean something different than the fact that you got answers different than what you wanted.

No way... convolution compression now... what'll they think of next. I gotta get me one of them.