Compressor: Digital or Not?

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rickv

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My question is straight forward, but I couldn't come up with an answer
by searching. Here it goes:

What are the differences in quality between a hardware compressor and
a dynamics plug-in?

I can't see the plug in being that bad - the math seems simple enough
that the algorithm would be alright. Do many people like recording
with outboard compressors because they can record with higher levels
and get better digital resolution? Or is it just out of the habit of
recording in the "good old days". It seems as though compressing
later on in the DAW has the advantage of being able to modify your
settings after the fact.

Anyhow, any comments or links would be great!
Rick
 
You can't compare a hypothetical generic hardware compressor with a generic software compressor. All compressors, hardware or software, sound different. Whether one is good or bad has more to do with the signal you are running into it and the context in which you are using it, than it does with the compresssor being inherently bad or good.
It is impossible to use a software compressor in your signal chain before the a/d convertors.
 
Farview said:
You can't compare a hypothetical generic hardware compressor with a generic software compressor. All compressors, hardware or software, sound different. Whether one is good or bad has more to do with the signal you are running into it and the context in which you are using it, than it does with the compresssor being inherently bad or good.
It is impossible to use a software compressor in your signal chain before the a/d convertors.

Thanks for the quick response.

First, for the sake of argument, let us pit the Cubase dynamics plugin against a RNC. How does everyone think about this comparison, as I use Cubase now and if I was to by a "rack" compressoe, the RNC is tops on my list.

Also, I knew that it's impossible to use a software compressor in the signal chain before the a/d converters ;).
 
The 2 will sound completely different. and (as you know) using the rnc in a cubase mix will be more hassle than it is worth. Not to mention the d/a to a/d and back conversion that it would take. Cubase dynamics also works in stereo, rnc does not.
You are still comparing apple to oranges. If I were laying down vocal tracks, I would use the rnc to compress the vocals as I am recording them. Once they are recorded, I might use cubases dynamics to further compress the track if it needs it.
 
If your choosing between the two....

If your comfortable with using a compressor, outboard hardware may be for you. This is because you have the choice of using it before the analog to digital conversion or after. But remember, once its in the computer, sending it out to the outboard compressor will add noise and extra A>D conversion error. The quality of the equipment will dictate the loss.

If your not comfortable with using a compressor (perhaps just learning), the software plug-in will allow an undo application. If you have sharp tracking skills, once your tracks reach the digital domain a plug-in will keep the signal in the digital domain avoiding the uneccessary loss of quality.

So what about outboard digital compressors you say?

I don't know.....to anyone else....does sending a 24bit signal to an outboard 24bit digital compressor inserted through a digital mixer reduce the chance of quality loss?

My guess is yes, but again...I'm no expert.....yet :) .
 
Farview said:
If I were laying down vocal tracks, I would use the rnc to compress the vocals as I am recording them. Once they are recorded, I might use cubases dynamics to further compress the track if it needs it.

This is exactly what I was refering to. Sorry if I confused you guys - I mean to mix within cubase, I would compress (nothing too drastic) before any signal would go into the DAW.
 
My opinion,

In theory compressors are basically the same thing. All they do is put a threshold on the sound with an attack, release, and a ratio, sometimes others, to control the dynamics.

But in reality, compressors react to the audio differently. So what you need to remember is that your buying a compressor based on what its doing to that sound.

Maybe the problem with digital compression is that its just done too simply. Its doing exactly what its supposed to do and doing it too perfectly. But what you need to decide is whether thats a problem or not. To me thats not always a problem. If i really am just trying to control the dynamics and im not looking for anything special, than ill use a basic nuendo plugin to do it.

With analog, and some of the nicer digital plugins that simulate analog, its probably the imperfections with the circuitry that makes the compressor react a special, colorful way with the audio.

So with that all in mind, i dont think the cheaper analog stuff is going to be much more different than a decent digital plugin. The RNC is generally described as pretty accurate and smooth. With using less transisters and other chips there is less interference with the sound. So i dont really feel that an RNC will give you a much different feel of a compressor than a decent digital plugin, except that its outboard and you can use it in a few different ways. And if you are using Nuendo 2, you can compress on input to control clipping anyway with a plugin.

Xstatic brought this concept up to me once when we were chatting and it really got me thinking. The Alesis 3630 is considered a pretty crappy compressor around here and else where in the audio world. But the thing is, it does exactly what its supposed to do. You just shouldnt expect anything more than that. If your not pushing it too hard and your not clipping it on input or output than it does a decent job at compressing. I personally never felt the coloration was never to horrid on those things if your using it right. But the problem is, it doesnt add anything to the signal. Its just really plain. And if you use too hard or wrong youll hear the major artifacts of the crappy components that its made out of.

Im not saying go out and by a Alesis 3630 because i think you can get better for the money. But theres a concept behind it that helps you understand what is really going on in the large world of compressors.

And the RNC really might have a smoother sound and cool coloration compared to the decent compressor plugins. But is it really worth going out and spending $300 to get that when you dont really know what that coloration really is? When your ready to start learning the differences maybe but to expect it to completely change the sound of your recordings its minimal in my opinion.

Danny
 
I use plug-in compressors fairly often and a lot of them do a pretty good job. If I want to quickly compress something I have already recorded, I use a plug-in, couple of clicks and you're done. But, however, you can find compressor plug-ins that sound as bad as you want them to, some are terrible. You will probably spend alot more on a good plug-in that you would on some good analog gear. One major advantage of plug-ins is of course their convenience and you never have to worry about hardwave failure. And also, if you pay $300 for an RNC, you bought it at the wrong place! There are alot of sites that sell it brand new for $175 with free shipping. In any case if you plan to expand your home recording studio over time I think you'll definately want to invest in a good compressor eventually.
 
JKestle said:
So what about outboard digital compressors you say?

I don't know.....to anyone else....does sending a 24bit signal to an outboard 24bit digital compressor inserted through a digital mixer reduce the chance of quality loss?

My guess is yes, but again...I'm no expert.....yet :) .
Most daws handle the internal stuff at 32 bit float, so it would have to be converted to 24 bit on the way out to the compressor. If it is a digital compressor, I wouldn't be suprised if it was available in plugin form. That way everything would stay at the internal bit depth.
 
I see your point. Digital is Digital...plug or hardware.

The idea of having nobs to twist in real time is very important to me.

How do you adjust compressor settings by inserting number values instead of turning nobs? Fine tuning a plug-in compressor seems harder than an outboard.
 
some of the plugins have virtual knobs to twist, but you are right. I prefer real knobs. But, then again, you can automate plugin compressors so it will react differently in different parts of the song. They both have a lot of pros and cons, almost too many to compare them.
 
On the subject of automation....

Do you mean wet/dry combinations, or different settings?
 
JKestle said:
On the subject of automation....

Do you mean wet/dry combinations, or different settings?
Different settings. You can change the threshold or ratio as the song progresses.
 
Only what comes with CEP2.0.

the only automation I know is wet/dry with envelops.

I'm not too worried about it, Automation, like Multiband Compression, are surgical tools I'd have a hard time using in my room. I have concrete everywhere with little treatment.

I doubt I could hear the intricasies of slight changes in settings.

I'd kill for a better room. That's my biggest challenge right now.
 
I don't know if CEP lets you do it. I have only tried it on VST plugins.
 
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