Compression

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tyler657recpro

tyler657recpro

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Ok, this is a subject there is a lot of controversey about, and I feel strongly that louder is not better, and music SHOULD have dynamics. I'm not totally against compression, but I do believe people overuse them. When ur listening to a song, and the lights never change, that seems scairy to me. I know it's much easier to mix things when you compress the living hell out of it, but it just doesn't sound good. The other thing that bugs me is when people compress things so much on TV that when the announcer is talking, you dont hear background noise, and when he's in between words, it spikes up. At least increase the release time for cryin' out loud! And then this new feature on the Sony TV's, which adds even more compression?! What's up with people these days? Compression was used for tapes with low dynamic range. Now we have digital, with more range than we know what to do with, and we use even less!
 
i completely disagree... For a rock mix, the louder is better for an in your face punchy sound. Also the change in sound still gives dynamics, not only the loudness. and, what was the point of this thread?
 
tyler657recpro said:
Compression was used for tapes with low dynamic range. Now we have digital, with more range than we know what to do with, and we use even less!
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You tell 'em, Tyler! I'm with you all the way on that one. Yea Bo!
 
tyler657recpro said:
The other thing that bugs me is when people compress things so much on TV that when the announcer is talking, you dont hear background noise, and when he's in between words, it spikes up.
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Thats called ducking, and they do that on purpose.
 
I love comp for making thing more 'even' like the kick drum that has a less than steady foot on it,or a vocalist with less than great mic technique and mastering for an added bit of punch .but the whole make it loud thing leaves me a bit cold. the problem that I see is that in the tracking process some less than diligent engineers(yes i am in that catorgory) arn't paying enough atention to the stuff that goes to tape /drive.the soultion to this is in making the 'artist' realy work hard at their performance,if this means taking apart their playing style piece by peice to get the results they want than thats is what has to be done,if the drummer (and lets face it thats where it starts) can be made to listen to the 6db peaks in his kick drum and then be made aware what that will do to the dynamic range of the recording well he might be a bit more steady with his foot(this I know because I'm a drummer who has had this pointed out and all my subsequent recordings have become better) and overall style.It takes alot of diplomacy and tact but it has to be done(in my humble opinion).and bass and vox must be told about consistancy in playing/technique. this dont mean you sacrifice dynamics from the start but means that the dynamic is there from the start and therefor every thing else should be a matter of just enhancing the sound and not controling that wild beast .oh I dont know what the point of the thread is but it makes me look like I'm working.
 
After enough ear training, it gets more and more noticeable- and, for me, irritating. My wife and I get a kick out of catching it on some news or PBS documentary where the first of each and every word begins with a little "phft" sound as the limiter kicks in.

Another good one is the big sucking sound as the news person pauses to take a breath about the time the comp releases.

Ok, I got one more. How come after 40 years in the buseness half the local news interviewers can't keep their levels out of total overload distortion?:rolleyes:

"i completely disagree... For a rock mix, the louder is better for an in your face punchy sound..."
To a point, sure. But squshed flat is not punchy. (IMHO:))
wayne
 
you wanna talk about over-compression?

creed's album "weathered"........ fucking ridiculous.
you have parts in songs where it's just scott and an acoustic guitar, and those parts are LOUDER relative to when the full band comes in....... talk about bass-ackwards priorities!
I knew compression was getting overused nowadays when you can hear the volume drop in a song when it goes from verse to chorus....... *sigh*
 
I think the rookie-Tyler could use some serious compression....

:rolleyes:


BTW, I'm still waiting for your pre-pube goons, whelp.... unless you were simply making idle threats a few posts back.......
Bring it ON!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I think the rookie-Tyler could use some serious compression....
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I was thinking something more like a concussion.:cool:
 
Leave him alone. Tyler's starting some interesting dialect around here, based around a very thought-provoking and intriguing subject matter that we should all be concerned with. And his commentary is relevant and to the point.
 
I like the idea of compression on the boob toob, commercials tend to up the amplitude to wake up viewers. I would love it if the compressors could cut out commercials alltogether.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I like the idea of compression on the boob toob, commercials tend to up the amplitude to wake up viewers. I would love it if the compressors could cut out commercials alltogether.
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Gating and a comml Peak Limiter would prob'ly be more useful!
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I like the idea of compression on the boob toob, commercials tend to up the amplitude to wake up viewers. I would love it if the compressors could cut out commercials alltogether.
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My TV has an "off/off" switch... ;)

- Wil
 
Everybody keeps talking about compression in new pop tunes. Are you guys actually going out and buying these CD's? You cant judge the mastering job by radio or MTV because they all add their own VERY heavy compression.

I'm not defending these productions because I haven't bought the CD's either. Compression would probably be my last complaint about a Creed or Nickleback album.

I've always been a fan of tastefull compression. When I was younger I listened to a lot of classical music and I was always messing with the volume. I want to hear every nuance of a performance and the only way to keep the volume up is with compression.

A good compressor tastefully applied won't mangle the tone. Dynamics is more about feel than actual volume level anyway. If you rely on volume to convey dynamics in a song you are kinda missing the point anyway. If all it took was volume change then everyone would just turn the chorus up to 11 ;)
 
Me? I'm more concerned with the music and the musicians who interpret the song!
 
Compressioin

Well, since everyone else is jumping in here, a few thoughts:

FM radio stations compress things mercilessly. If you judge prevailing production standards based on what you hear on the radio, you'd think things were really overcompressed. Generally I don't like this ... it really does remove dynamics that I, at least, find interesting. This might be short-time-frame (like note to note/word to word), or worse, changes between choruses and verses or bridges.

On the other hand, a lot of people (including me) listen to the radio in noisy cars. Dynamic variations that are pleasing when you're listening at home might lead to parts of the song getting completely lost in the road noise.

Putting the radio to one side, I'd probably side with the "there's too much compression on today's albums" school, though I wouldn't claim to have any great deal of knowledge on the subject, since I haven't heard vast quantities of contemporary stuff as originally recorded (as opposed to as broadcast on the radio).

The TV is another issue entirely. Maybe I'm the only one, but I find that movies (particularly on the VCR, but also on cable) have more dynamic range than I like at home. I don't know if they've mastered the soundtrack for theaters and then left it like that or what, but soundtracks do seem to jump from "whisper quiet dialog so low you have to rewind to tell what they're saying" to "wake the kids and scare the dog" sound effects and music with not a lot of warning. I find myself "riding gain" with the remote control, which isn't exactly conducive to the whole movie-watching experience.
 
TexRoadkill said:

...snip
When I was younger I listened to a lot of classical music and I was always messing with the volume. I want to hear every nuance of a performance and the only way to keep the volume up is with compression.

A good compressor tastefully applied won't mangle the tone. Dynamics is more about feel than actual volume level anyway. If you rely on volume to convey dynamics in a song you are kinda missing the point anyway. If all it took was volume change then everyone would just turn the chorus up to 11 ;)
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I understand what you're saying, but perhaps you were listening to the music in an environment which was too noisy. I could never undertand why people always rave about having a CD player in their car (apart from the convenience) - typical dynamic range of a CD is ~95dB, typical noise level in a car is ~55->60dB, so what you need when listening in a car is a compressor, which defeats the whole idea of having a large dynamic range...

I find dynamics to be very important in music (I hate using the labels of "Classical", "Jazz", "Blues" whatever - to me, music is music (fodder for another thread perhaps...)) - anyway, the reason for dynamics is to have a way of expressing contrast. (Over)using compression removes an important dimension of the music. Here (in the US) radio stations use compression on their transmitted signal in order to extend their range (compression increases their average output power). I used to live in the UK, and at that time radio stations were not allowed to use compression on their output - I suppose there was some concern about interference - perhaps things have changed. IMHO few things sound worse than compressed music. Granted, much of the "pop" music has limited dynamic range anyway (it's just LOUD), and I wonder if compression really makes any difference (apart from limiting clipping on a digital recording...)

I think the ideal amount of compression is just enough so that you can't hear it... ;)

- Wil
 
tex......

I have a fifteen year old sister, so I get my fair share of today's pop/rap/rock music...... and YES, the albums are just as compressed as they are on the radio.
personally, I can't stand listening to the radio. the compression thing is one thing, but the sound quality is just horrid...... and even if I'm right next to the station, there's always that HINT of static that bugs the shit out of me. and these complaints are supposing that good music is being played! :eek:
oh, and the car thing...... my car has a noise level of about 54 db..... so that still leaves me with 40 db of dynamic range.... I can't think of many albums (other than say, classical) that use that much dynamic range for longer than 15 seconds or so.
 
Addressing the radio topic, albums are so heavily compressed, that the radiostation's compressors "fight" with the previous compression, and you start hearing voices become inaudible when the music goes into a musically louder chorous, and things like that. I'm not really sure why radiostations compress things, but I think its because of radio's decreased dynamic range.

If you want to hear a terribly badly compressed album, try Bad Love by Randy Newman, he's the guy that does all the disney stuff. That album is seriously screwed.

And listen to the michelle branch spirit room album and pay close attention to the meter bridge, noticing the lights NEVER change!!!

I think its pretty sad.

Im not saying compression sucks, because it can be very useful in toning down dynamics that would otherwise kill a person, like some of those energetic gospel singers, and is useful for when the mic is moving around, like when a person with a lapel mic, leans down to read something, and kills half the audience. It's also very useful on TV, but I hate it when they overuse it. It's especially bad on basketball games!!!
 
The wealth of absolute, raw "knowledge" that tyler-rookie has at his disposal is simply amazing....... :eek:

I am SO jealous.............. I wish I could spit out gobbledygook like HE does - then I would sound smart too! :(

Oh well...


:rolleyes:
 
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