compression on instrumental track?

[mofat]

I just wanna record cover songs but my vocals never seem to be in the mix with the instrumental part. I been reading that compressors are the "glue" and i realize maybe its because I've never compressed the instrumental track. On the thought of compressors....why do analog mixers have insert jacks on the main outs? Do people compress the main outs too?
Thx for reading.

 

[witzendoz]

I just wanna record cover songs but my vocals never seem to be in the mix with the instrumental part. I been reading that compressors are the "glue" and i realize maybe its because I've never compressed the instrumental track.

When you say instrumental track are you talking about a mix of the instruments or the individual instrument tracks? When mixing instrument tracks compression can be used to even out peaks and help the instrument sit in the mix, sometimes the compressor is used to create a sound. If the instrumental track is already mixed, like a backing track, then the problem could be that you need to have a look at the vocal track and see if some compression is need on that? Have a bit of an experiment with the compression and see if it works for you.

On the thought of compressors....why do analog mixers have insert jacks on the main outs? Do people compress the main outs too?
Thx for reading.

Sometimes, I don't do it as much now, but back in the days of mixing to tape or the old 16Bit DAT machines when I was trying to maintain a good level I use to insert a limiter to grab wayward peaks, like the odd drum hit. Sometimes I do still insert a compressor over a buss, like the drum buss, usually with another non-compressed buss in parallel.

Alan.

 

[Farview]

The vocal doesn't fit in the mix because it wasn't taken into account when the instrumental was mixed. The tonality of the vocal has to fit perfectly into the mix.

Compressing the instrumental track will only make it worse. Compressing the mix with the vocal in it will help more.

 

[witzendoz]

Actually I was going to refer to a project I do about 3 times a year with a talent school, I have young singers that record vocals with a backing track so that the vocals are on the final track for when they do the live stage show. The idea is that the up to 40 vocalists can record the backing vocals on the backing track so when they are dancing around the stage they do not have to be miced up (imagine 40 head set vocal mics on a dance stage), the lead vocals are done live at the show with a radio mic.

Anyway, I find that by mixing the vocals into the backing track with both the backing track and vocal buss with some compression, and then having some more compression across the whole mix does put the vocals and backing tracks together. The full mix compression is actually more like mastering, but not in strict terms as the mix is only for a stage show over a large PA not to be sold and played on home stereos, so I do hammer the compression a bit harder than I would for a CD release to glue it together.

Alan.

 

[Bobbsy]

There isn't a right or wrong. Compression is a tool for controlling dynamic range. Sometimes individual instruments need it, more often not. Similarly sometimes (and more often) some light compression on a bus or subgroup with the whole instrumental mix can make it easier to help your vocals play nicely with the mix.

OT but relevant, a trick I was taught by a pro sound mixer almost 40 years ago was that, when you have the instrumental mix done, put it through a Graphic EQ and take off a couple of dB from the instruments in the vocal range (say 250-2000Hz). Keep it subtle so the instruments still sound okay but this can "cut a hole" to help the vocals sit in with the instrumentals.

On your other topic, insert jacks on the main outs of an analogue mixer are probably more often used in a live situation than for recording...and would typically have a stereo EQ unit on them, used to "ring out" the system to buy yourself a few more dB of gain before feedback. However, they can be used for anything.

 

[mofat]

Thx for the inputs guys. I'll try to experiment with the backing track and the whole mix to see what happens.
Btw, how do you create a loop from DAW to an outboard compressor. I have a dbx 1066.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Thx for the inputs guys. I'll try to experiment with the backing track and the whole mix to see what happens.
Btw, how do you create a loop from DAW to an outboard compressor. I have a dbx 1066.

Depends on the DAW and the interface.

I have about 14 channels of analog compression left over from my PA but I use plugins because they sound better and they are more versatile.

 

[Pinky]

Depends on the DAW and the interface.

I have about 14 channels of analog compression left over from my PA but I use plugins because they sound better and they are more versatile.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Using an external processor will also likely introduce some latency since there's now another signal in the chain that the DAW and interface will be waiting for.

Compression is one of the things I find plugins do a very good job.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Using an external processor will also likely introduce some latency since there's now another signal in the chain that the DAW and interface will be waiting for.

If live sources are recorded in alignment with the existing tracks then you can loop out and back without it being misaligned. Digital hardware and certain analog hardware may introduce delay but analog compressors should not.

 

[Farview]

A dbx 1066 isn't the sort of compressor that is worth coming out of the box for. Just about any VST will do an equal job, with out introducing noise and hassle.

 

[Strryder]

If the backing track has already been compressed and maximized for loudness and is almost clipping with that channel's fader at 0, it will be much more difficult to record or mix vocal tracks to it.

If that is the case, I would bring down the fader on the backing track until it's peaking at about -12 on that channel's meter, then turn up the headphones until it's back up to a comfortable monitoring level, now there should be enough headroom to get the vocals recorded well without slamming the main outs into clipping.

After the vocals are recorded you can put a compressor plugin on them and start trying to get them to fit into music, don't worry about maxing out the overall loudness until you get the mix sounding great without any clipping.

 

[mofat]

Thx again for your valuable insights. You're right about pre-recorded tracks already mastered for max output. So i should record at -12db for more headroom?

 

[Strryder]

Yes, back the fader for the backing tracks down until that channel's meters are peaking at about -12 or so, then set the recording level for your mic so that the channel meters for that track are also peaking at about -12, if you must adjust the backing track up/down a little bit for a good balance to record to that's fine, just don't even worry about the overall loudness until all of the tracking and mixing is done.