compression=evil

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starbuck26

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We just took our first EP to a world-class mastering facility. Our ME was nothing short of an artist.

Through about a six hour session, I learned a great deal. He encouraged us not to slam the shit out of our mixes and ruin our record... and gave a pretty great insight into the 'loudness war,' we've all been talking about.

He was encouraged, I think, by working with an independent band that had no labels, producers etc. to worry about... no one demanding him to squash it to hell. He liked our music, and wanted it to remain 'music.'

To be honest, though, when he said that he was mastering it quieter than other records, we got a little antsy... I guess when you're a band trying to get going you're worried about your music seeming 'worse' sounding than real bands in professional studios...

but then he encouraged us even further... we didn't record with class a technology, we didn't have professionals behind the board... what we end up with is a lo-fi sound. but he qualified that by insisting music is music. what green day does on their records should have no influence on what we do... they're terribly different animals.

But it wasn't until I sat in his chair and listen to the mixes and watch the waveforms generate that I truly understood... Without compressing it so much, all of the minute swells in volume remained... we compared it to a squashed master (he actually said that compression was 'evil') and those were all... gone.

In the end... if you pop it into your ipod and it's a bit quieter than a commercial rock record... and you want to blast it while bopping around town... just turn up the volume.

It was encouraging to see a true artist at work... and working on our mixes, our sound. It will no doubt change the way we approach our next record, which will be recorded in houses, basements, garages—all over the place. Rather than trying to sound overly 'professional,' we'll aim to use the charm and life and dynamics and freedom of our independence more than compare everything we do to someone else.
 
Great post! Nice to see you and your band find new paths... :)

Post some clips when you can!
 
We just took our first EP to a world-class mastering facility. Our ME was nothing short of an artist.

Through about a six hour session, I learned a great deal. He encouraged us not to slam the shit out of our mixes and ruin our record... and gave a pretty great insight into the 'loudness war,' we've all been talking about.

He was encouraged, I think, by working with an independent band that had no labels, producers etc. to worry about... no one demanding him to squash it to hell. He liked our music, and wanted it to remain 'music.'

To be honest, though, when he said that he was mastering it quieter than other records, we got a little antsy... I guess when you're a band trying to get going you're worried about your music seeming 'worse' sounding than real bands in professional studios...

but then he encouraged us even further... we didn't record with class a technology, we didn't have professionals behind the board... what we end up with is a lo-fi sound. but he qualified that by insisting music is music. what green day does on their records should have no influence on what we do... they're terribly different animals.

But it wasn't until I sat in his chair and listen to the mixes and watch the waveforms generate that I truly understood... Without compressing it so much, all of the minute swells in volume remained... we compared it to a squashed master (he actually said that compression was 'evil') and those were all... gone.

In the end... if you pop it into your ipod and it's a bit quieter than a commercial rock record... and you want to blast it while bopping around town... just turn up the volume.

It was encouraging to see a true artist at work... and working on our mixes, our sound. It will no doubt change the way we approach our next record, which will be recorded in houses, basements, garages—all over the place. Rather than trying to sound overly 'professional,' we'll aim to use the charm and life and dynamics and freedom of our independence more than compare everything we do to someone else.
That's all we been tying to say here all along! :D

It's as simple as this: If your music is worth listening to, people will want to listen to it even if it a a couple of dBs quieter than the band next door. If it's not worth listening to, people ain't gonna listen to it no matter how loud it is.

Glad this guy helped you guys find the light. :)

G.
 
Glad this guy helped you guys find the light. :)

G.

I've read the loudness war posts and don't mean to beat it to death here. Those posts are what enabled me to understand what he was explaining to us and actually participate in the conversation.

Thinking further, though, I realize that whether my rock band falls apart and no one bothers to even listen to the album, the experience of having it properly mastered was irreplaceable.

It changed the way I listen to music. Plain and simple.
 
I think you let your ME off too easily.

His job is to blow the mix up until it's pegging the meters with ferocity and anger.

If you like wimp mixes, then I'm sure you got your money's worth. But next time, if you want a real master, just send it over to me, and I'll make it look like a solid, vertical block -- The way rock music was intended to be.

:D
 
I guess we did let him off real easy...

We were really quiet during the process, as we intended to just let him work.

It took him about 2 hours to realize that our quietness was based out of respect and excitement about what he was doing rather than unhappiness with the job...

I am befuddled by the chutzpah of walking into his studio and telling him what he should do... i know we're the artists... and we're paying the bill... but this whole label-dictating-practice thing blows my head... music is collaborative.
 
The worst case scenario is that you won't sell millions of CD's but 30 years from now your kids and grandkids will have something to listen to that won't be an embarrasment .


great thread.

chazba
 
Archaic thinking in the new millenium

Last night I had a discussion with a buddy about compression. He's been talking to a salesguy who is trying to sell him a massive 30x4 high dollar mixer with (maybe) 8 channels of comp on the mic strips (1-8) I believe that he is looking at 8 more ways to screw up their live sound.
It's not my band and not my $$$ so I shut up. But hey...I'm the guy who believes that EQ is just another form of distortion. Maybe I'm old school but I believe that you should choose guitars and amps, drums and whatever kbd stuff that makes a sound that is actually pleasing to the ear. Is that archaic thinking in the new millenium???

chazba
 
Maybe I'm old school but I believe that you should choose guitars and amps, drums and whatever kbd stuff that makes a sound that is actually pleasing to the ear. Is that archaic thinking in the new millenium???
The act of thinking in and of itself seems to be what's becoming old school.

Then again, there are some things that never change over time or over generations. One of them is the sheer gullibility of the buying public, it's seemingly bottomless willingness to believe that salespeople actually have their interests at heart, and that *things* hold the answer. The snake oil may have changed in shape and size, and may have been digitized and sampled to within an inch of it's life, but it's still snake oil.

The Loudness Wars are one flavor of that snake oil. Just make your stuff loud and you can compete. In fact if your don't make your stuff loud as the Jonses, you are just a 90-pound weakling. P.T Barnum and Elmer Gantry are dancing in their graves. If they were alive, they'd be selling finalizers, limiters and harmonic balancers to beat the band (in more ways than one ;) ).

G.
 
Would love to hear some before and after mastering samples when you get a chance
 
I was just reading Bob Katz's article on K-system metering and there seems to be a definite movement (seemingly underground though it may be) back to the real meaning of what making music is all about. It's nice to see so many people getting in here and fighting the machine that has become mass music.
 
I was just reading Bob Katz's article on K-system metering and there seems to be a definite movement (seemingly underground though it may be) back to the real meaning of what making music is all about. It's nice to see so many people getting in here and fighting the machine that has become mass music.

There are a few schools of thought on the K-system from what I can tell. In the sense of avoiding making things too loud, it's good. But having a standardised system could place limitations on what is essentially an artform. And putting limitations on an artform is almost like telling someone how and what they should play on their guitar, or what colors to use on a painting. At least that's my perception of it anyway.
 
I hear what you're saying, it's just impressive that there seems to be a movement away from the slamfest that commercial music is. I am not sure if standardizing is appropriate, but backing off the brickwall limiter is a good idea to me. If the K system works for someone, it works, if not, then they will find something that does. The bottom line is that music was meant to be dynamic, it allows for much more expression I think.
 
Yeah. It's just somewhat a shame that the movement is only amongst the musicians and engineers. The execs are a different story.
 
Yeah. It's just somewhat a shame that the movement is only amongst the musicians and engineers. The execs are a different story.
In deed, I know that from experience. I contacted several bands which do great music, Imho, but have their albums mastered very badly. Usually, my offer was appreciated a lot, but unfortunately, they sold their rights to the label in any case. Even if they gave me a contact address, my offer wasn't even answered. Indeed, it looks much like that the big labels aren't even interested in good sounding CD's. Shame on them.

Bands always have the option to quit their contracts and find other ways of distribution. Luckily there are alternatives, thanks to the internet. Unfortunately, only few bands actually do that.

Nine Inch Nails did quit their contract, because they were unhappy with the label. It wasn't about the sound, but about pricing, though.

Btw., I rarely master a CD louder than -14 dBFS RMS sine.
 
you don't know evil until you've over-compressed drum overheads to tape, and didn't realize it until it was time to mix......... :p
 
Would love to hear some before and after mastering samples when you get a chance

Sorry, been away. I'll post some when i get them back from the studio.

Or maybe I should hold out and make you order the cd... :eek: But that would be cruel.
 
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