compressing overheads

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frosty55

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What settings are best whilst trying to compress overheads on a kit?
The only compressor at my disposal is an Alesis Nanocompressor. Can I get results with it?
Having recorded the drums onto four tracks on my analogue eight track, the cymbals are on one track only.
What would I set the compressor to?...Peak, Rms, Ratio, Hard Knee etc..
Any advice appreciated thanks
 
What are you looking to achieve by compressing the overheads?
 
I know it's been done to great effect but I never found a need yet to compress the overheads.
 
I don't compress overheads.

I recently did a job where I was requested to (in addition to the overheads) put an LDC out in front of the bass drum, like 2~3' out and waist high pointed down at the top of the drum. The drums were tracked in a very large "live" room. The post engineer asked me to do this in preparation to "squeeze the tar" out of that track. Keep in mind this is on rock material. Haven't messed with it myself to see, but I can tell you that, along with the rest of the kit mics, that mic sounded fantastic.

I would be conservative on compressing wet to tape, and very much so on overheads because those are the key mics for the whole voice of the kit and you really want to capture that naked IMHO for the greatest dynamic range. You can mess with it later if you want.

My 2p.
 
Well I've seen and heard of many people compressing overheads to get more sustained cymbals, in fact I thought it was common practice.
 
I do compress overheads but it depends on the required drum sound. I would for hard rock / metal, but not for jazz or folk.

Compressing the overheads can help when the drummer has hit the snare or hi hat too hard and there is more snare or hats in the over heads than the cymbals or toms (drummers sigh!). The compression when set up right using the attack and release will reduce the loud hit and let the quiet stuff come through.

Another trick I use is parallel compression link1 link2
This keeps the overheads sounding natural and helps bring up any missing quiet parts. I sometimes compress the whole kit using parallel compression not just the overheads. Again it depends on the desired drum sound.

Cheers
Alan.
 
I have put a hard limiter before to where the cymbals sound generally unaffected but any loud snare hits get spanked. that way it doens't interfere as much with the snare track. I like the idea of sustaining the cymbals I never thought of that
 
I know they were heavily compressed in the song "Rain" and I just heard a song today, Street Corner Girl (forget the name) by Led Zep. They definitely sounded compressed on that. It can definitely be good, but I think you need the right limiter or will either do nothing or squish them too much.
 
compress later if needed...

on a side note: I am moving away from tracking with overheads altogether lately. A good ribbon in front of the kit (like sweetbeats mentioned) and maybe a little snare (under) and kick is the way I go now. try it! Oh, and it's indeed very nice to compress the front mic (mostly a ribbon in my case). I don't like cymbals too much anyway so I set the compressor to smooth them out a little. They always seem so damn loud!
 
frosty55 said:
I actually want to try and even out the cymbals. On playing back the tape, the crash cymbal is a bit louder than the others.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the reason I would pick to compress the overheads in this case, set the compression so that the crash is compressed and the others barely compress and it should sound natural, you will have to play with the attack and release and the ratio may need to be steep so that when the crash hits it brings it down to the volume of the other cymbals. Parallel compression used alongside helps to keep it natural and open.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Surprising, I have read a lot of people like to keep the overheads uncompressed.
 
I'm not sure why it would suprise anyone that uncompressed oevrheads would be a preference. Compression IS needed at times, but I believe youi should always strive to get good, clean tracks down WITHOUT resorting to tricks like compression. It's my opinion that you can always compress AFTER you have the tracks recorded; you can't undo it it if you compress the signal to the multi-track. Sometimes, you do have to - just rememebr a little goes a LONG way.


AK
 
analogkid said:
I'm not sure why it would suprise anyone that uncompressed oevrheads would be a preference. Compression IS needed at times, but I believe youi should always strive to get good, clean tracks down WITHOUT resorting to tricks like compression. It's my opinion that you can always compress AFTER you have the tracks recorded; you can't undo it it if you compress the signal to the multi-track. Sometimes, you do have to - just rememebr a little goes a LONG way.


AK
Click to expand...

Again I should point out that it depends on the sound you are after. I like nothing better than a well recorded drum kit with no compression, but sometimes you could be mixing a metal band where the drums need to be really in your face and stay in the mix amongst the wall of guitars and in this case compression could help get what you want. If it's a very open sounding Jazz, Folk, middle rock sound than no compression or maybe a little compression to help with things like the overloud snare or the lost cymbal could be what you are looking for, you have no control over how the drummer played and how hard he / she played each item in the kit so some fixing may be required. There are no rules, if it sounds right it is right. Experiment with parallel compression, it could be the best of both worlds.

Also I never track with compression on any drum mics, only during mix down (if needed).

Don't think that because someone uses compression or someone else does not that you have to follow the sheep, try for yourself and decide what is best for you. I always think of the classic example I was reading once, ask 6 top engineers how they would mic (and what mics they use) a grand piano, and get 6 totally different answers. Yet they all get great recordings of a grand piano.

Cheers
Alan
 
Usually compresing cymbals sounds very weird and is more for effects. It changes the tone of the cymbal. If you want that, then that's another thing.

The Beatles got into that sound a bit, like on this you can hear it on the crash:



It doesn't sound normal but it is what it is. Near the end (2:24) you can hear the ol' Altec huffin' and a puffin' - really should lay off the Benson & Hedges. :)

I remember when that came out when I was a kid and wanting to get a cymbal like that - good luck Jack!
 
I have three different compression settings I use sometimes...they seem to work ok.

Highpass is filter.

I have some EQ settings as well if you need them...If the compression works ok I can post some EQ stuff as well.

# 1

Ratio 2:01
Attack 1.0 ms
Release 100 ms
Knee + 7.3
Thresh - 18.4
Gain + 0.4
HighPass 50 Hz

# 2...same as # 1 except for highpass is 10 Hz lower

Ratio 2:01
Attack 1.0 ms
Release 100 ms
Knee + 7.3
Thresh - 18.4
Gain + 0.4
HighPass 40 Hz

# 3

Ratio 40:1
Attack 1.0 ms
Release 190 ms
Knee + 4
Thresh - 13.8
Gain -1.6
HighPass 309 Hz
 
witzendoz said:
Again I should point out that it depends on the sound you are after. I like nothing better than a well recorded drum kit with no compression, but sometimes you could be mixing a metal band where the drums need to be really in your face and stay in the mix amongst the wall of guitars and in this case compression could help get what you want. If it's a very open sounding Jazz, Folk, middle rock sound than no compression or maybe a little compression to help with things like the overloud snare or the lost cymbal could be what you are looking for, you have no control over how the drummer played and how hard he / she played each item in the kit so some fixing may be required. There are no rules, if it sounds right it is right. Experiment with parallel compression, it could be the best of both worlds.

Also I never track with compression on any drum mics, only during mix down (if needed).

Don't think that because someone uses compression or someone else does not that you have to follow the sheep, try for yourself and decide what is best for you. I always think of the classic example I was reading once, ask 6 top engineers how they would mic (and what mics they use) a grand piano, and get 6 totally different answers. Yet they all get great recordings of a grand piano.

Cheers
Alan
Click to expand...

I agree completely Alan - think you just said it clearer.

AK
 
Another song from Revolver with TONS of compression on whatever ambient drum mic or mics were used is Tomorrow Never Knows...awesome match of a groove and the hyper squishy leveling amp...notice how the release rate gets the cymbals dancing with the tom groove...the leveling amp becomes another voice of the kit essentially. Way cool.

Again, like I said, I don't support dynamics processing during tracking UNLESS it is for a purposeful effect that you want interacting with the tape...hey, sky's the limit with all that, but IMHO if you HAVE to compress because something is out of control then I'd be moving a mic or working with the drummer to move a cymbal or trying a different cymbal or trying a different mic rather than pull out a processor to fix the problem. Moving the mic is my first choice...Letting the drummer play and getting a step-ladder and moving my head with one ear plugged around the kit...ALL around the kit until I hear the sound balance I'm looking for, taking into account what I know at that point is coming through the other mics (IOW the sound balance I'm looking for might be pretty nasty on its own but be the ticket with the rest of the mics). I might end up with something pretty unorthodox in terms of placement but...
 
analogkid said:
I believe youi should always strive to get good, clean tracks down WITHOUT resorting to tricks like compression. It's my opinion that you can always compress AFTER you have the tracks recorded; you can't undo it it if you compress the signal to the multi-track. AK
Click to expand...

I looked at your user name and it made me think, back in my days of analog recording I probably used very little compression when mixing drums. However that would have been due to me liking the sound of the tape compression when slamming the drums onto tape at +9 and beyond. That was the best compression.

Why do some of you think that compressing overheads is an effect, if it's done right you would be hard pressed to know that there was compression at all, just a fatter drum sound. Another byproduct of overhead (and room mic) compression is that it brings more of the room into the sound, of course you need the room to sound good for this to work.

Cheers
Alan.
 
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