compress or track less hot?

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dobro

dobro

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I close-mic voice and acoustic guitar when I track - I like the sound both in terms of the room I use and the music I want to make, but close-miking means dynamics are more of an issue. So, I'm always tracking with about 3.5:1 compression on vocals, and depending on the guitar part, a bit less on acoustic. Finally, I record at 24-bit.

So, here's my question: given the above scenario, which of the following two approaches would you opt for, and why?

1 Keep doing it the way I've been doing it.

2 Track at a less hot level so I can ease way back on the compression during tracking. Currently, I set recording levels so things are peaking at about -3 dB.
 
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It's not that I'm such a purist, I'm not. I opt for recording at a lower level and recording dry. 24 bit recording gives room to compress later on. It's easy to add later, it's a sonofabitch to take off. Just my humble opinion.
 
what i am thinking is that it would suck to record that 'perfect take' and then have the compression settings sound 'wrong' in the mix... you can't undo it really so you would have to redo... like mr. rat said, it's 24 bit, compress in the mix... IMHO anyway :D :D :D
 
Rat, Lucid - I respect your humble opinions, yeah, and I think Shailat would agree with you too, judging from what he says about compression in this thread:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71339

...which is partly where my question's coming from. He's light years ahead of me using compression (he's at the level of using it as a STYLISTIC tool), but maybe I can start to approach that by using less compression during tracking. Lucid, you talk about recording the 'perfect' take, and then finding out it's too compressed in the mix. But my much more common problem is to record the 'perfect' take, only to find out that it's clipped - arrgghuck. That's why I use as much compression as I do. But maybe I can ease off on both gain and compression without clipping and with a better overall result.
 
My compression for vocals is nearly the same as yours, but I'm tracking at about +3 on the peaks.

But I can get away with it.;)
 
I like to use a compressor to track only as a limiter before the A/D convertors. Clipping safety net....
 
sennheiser - don't boast - it's unbecoming. :D

ecs113 - sure, I use compression to prevent clipping as well, and I thought that was obvious from my first post, but the point of my thread (well, it's more of a question than a point) is that I might be able to get just as good if not better results just by turning the gain down a bit when I'm recording.

Okay, everybody/anybody - where do the peaks hit when you record? Mine are hitting about -3 dB.
 
ecs113 said:
I like to use a compressor to track only as a limiter before the A/D convertors. Clipping safety net....
Click to expand...

Yup. Limit on the way in. Compress later.

Remember that whenever you apply EQ, you are changing the dynamics, and what was once a nicely compressed track can all of a sudden be full of peaks. Which means you may have to compress yet again. And if you already compressed while tracking, you now run the danger of an overcompressed track.

Use a limiter to catch freak peaks. Or just give yourself some more headroom. Compress later.

My $0.02
 
Kinda depends on what you're recording - don't you think? I have recorded a vocal track from whispering to shouting and it simply NEEDED compression... Other tracks may not.

aXel
 
Dobro,

You sent me a PM but I never got it.

Why dont you send me a cd of a song or two with acoustic guitar and vocals and let me see what I can do with it and listen to your
stuff and the way its recorded.

Not a mp3 and not to DL it over the web but a well recorded CD.
PM me for my address.
 
dobro said:
...But my much more common problem is to record the 'perfect' take, only to find out that it's clipped - arrgghuck...
Click to expand...

...dobro brutha, you don't need compressor. Believe me, you need to take singing course, and guitar practise. :D

My range about -6dB to -3dB. Never less, never more. If you play it right, then dynamic won't have much to do with level anymore. It's the touch, not the presure. No clips. It's all in your mind, young Jedi. All in your mind...


:D :D :D
 
dobro said:
ecs113 - sure, I use compression to prevent clipping as well, and I thought that was obvious from my first post, but the point of my thread (well, it's more of a question than a point) is that I might be able to get just as good if not better results just by turning the gain down a bit when I'm recording.

Okay, everybody/anybody - where do the peaks hit when you record? Mine are hitting about -3 dB.
Click to expand...

Rephrase:
I use a high ratio of compression to limit transients to prevent a/d clipping, rather than low ratios to compress the signal when tracking.

Your point was not obvious, explicit nor implicit due to the low ratios being used and the fact that you didn't mention the function your compressors play in tracking.

My levels also peak around -3dB.
 
chess - that approach is what I'm leaning to after this thread, yeah.

Shailat - I re-sent the PM - it was basically just a thank you for your response in the Rack forum. I'm still doing tunes with just acoustic and voice, yeah, but in addition I'm doing more complex stuff these days too - bass guitar, beats, layered vocals, other insruments... I figured out that thing you mentioned in the Rack forum about tracks in busier mixes needing more compression - whereas simple voice plus guitar stuff doesn't need anything like as much compression usually. And thanks for your kind offer - but anything I sent you would be stuff I'd already compressed a bit while tracking. Last night I recorded some new stuff, and I tried turning down both compression and gain - it sounded okay, although the waveform was a bit small. I'm going to try it again tonight with a combination of slightly lower gain plus limiter. I'm trying to learn how to do this.

James - I'm working the mics better than I used to, but I still get carried away sometimes, and emotion translates into loudness. It's all in my mind, yeah, but when it travels from my mind and comes out my mouth, sometimes it clips. :D

ecs113 - clear now. Thanks. Like I said, I going to try the 'limiter rather than the compressor' approach.
 
I'll say it since these pussies wont!

Never ever ever ! Dont compress to disk! OR.. if you think you should.. record a dry signal in addition!.. so that you can get a \good sound if you catch that perfect take.

But really...like with all effects.. if you CAN do them in the mix.. I think you SOULD.. cuz then you have options. You never know what will sound good.. and GOD FORBID you want to rip a RAGING TECHNO REMIX three years down the road! You NEED a dry signal!!

xoxo
 
how about using a compressor to give u flavor or a specific sound unachievable by plug-ins?
 
I guess it comes down to your philosophy of music in general, and/or the philosophy of the track specifically. It seems that purity and minimalism is a popular philosophy when tracking, so as to capture an accurate recording and/or to increase options later. This is only ONE philosophy, though, based on production values. If you don't care about being able to undo your sound then your values are different, but not necessarily wrong.

Teacher - I guess purist camn would say track it clean and add your outboard compression later.

Do what you want....
 
i agree with ecs113 and that is why i am shopping around for a stereo compressor i can use with this RNP thing. i don't want the RNC because it doesn't appear that you can switch it to mono.

i only want the compressor so i can use it as a brickwall limiter. i don't record too hot, but i've had to instances this past week where a vocalist crossed the -0-

since Sonar has a feature that prevents clipping i don't hear the pop during playback, but i'd rather there be no pop at all.
 
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