Composing (I guess)

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thebigcheese

thebigcheese

"Hi, I'm in Delaware."
I have a ton of guitar riffs just sitting on my computer and I don't know what to do with any of them. I feel like some of them could turn in to great songs, but I really don't know where to go with them. How do you go about turning an idea into a finished product? And then how do you add words on top of that? I can write accompaniments, but I've never quite figured out how to finish my own ideas. Thoughts or suggestions?
 
I think this very much depends on the idea. There's no formula for finishing ideas. If you know some theory, you can start building chord progressions from the key the riffs are in, or writing other riffs in the key. You can come up with a vocal over the riffs, then see what type of other song sections that inspires. If you don't have any ideas for riffs to play under those vocal ideas, just mute scratch a rhythm that fits, and see what comes along. In my experience, cutting and pasting riff ideas together typically doesn't work too well. Which is not to say that it can't, in fact I'm sure that if you have enough riffs you're bound to have a few that can lead into each other. You might try changing them into the same key, or adjacent keys, and see if that works.

But, at the same time, don't get wrapped up in "making things fit," in a theoretical sense. You don't want to develop a craft that keeps you inside a box. The above are just ideas to hopefully get started making ideas adhere to each other. Take a completely different approach too: listen to you riffs and pick a few that have similar moods, play them one after another, build adjacent sections from them, edit them, improvise over them, turn them head over heels until they spin the way you want them to.

Most importantly, stop asking how and just do it. Writing is not an emotionally easy process. You pour a lot into songs, and as you develop your craft you're disappointed with the return on investment. What's worse, you feel like you're short-changing your inspiration by writing songs that don't do them justice. It would be easy if you could treat every song as an exercise, but of course, with no emotional investment, you're destined to turn out trite garbage. Sad thing is, you need to churn out some bad-to-mediocre before you turn out good. Don't be afraid of it. Take risks, write all you can.
 
Well, I'm not really going to try leading with vocals now. Lyrics aren't really my cup of tea, I was hoping to get some ideas on writing them. But I'll give the other stuff a try. So far, I haven't been to good at that. I can play the same riff for an hour and not come up with anything new... Also, I don't really know much about theory, so that could be a problem.
 
This seems overly simplistic but...a finished idea, is just a bunch of ideas, put a group of them together that work, and go with it...if you have a hard time with lyrics, take on a writing parter..some people can do both, some one or the other, neither is a better songwriter, it just depends on the individual, take on somone who has the skills you lack, and take a bunch of unfinished ideas and make a finished one... best thing I can adivise.
 
What made a a difference for me was getting an inexpensive home keyboard, and through using it learning just enough about theory to understand how certain chords make up a key, and certain songs can "modulate" from key to key in nice sounding ways. Somehow the relationships are more apparent when look down at the keys, even if I have to compose everthing originally in the key of C/Am and then transpose it later to make it a better vocal or guitar fit. Now virtually all chord progressions come together for me at the keys, even ones that start our with interesting guitar riffs that I came up with in the past.

Just my 2 ... might not work for you.

Tom
 
Don’t worry about theory and mostly don’t worry about playing a riff for hours and nothing coming – may be your brain is not like that! While many great muso can’t/don‘t want to write lyrics and many lyrists that don’t play an instrument – there is also another group of song writers I’ve have meet, that can do both but not at the same time or at least not without some sort of prompting structure.

Don’t play the riff for hours (unless your chops need a work out) turn on the TV watch the news – see a personal narrative in the big stories – listen to an interview with a celebrity and write down phrases that you like, listen to other peoples conversation in cafes, take another song you like; work out its main theme and hook and try to write your own song like it and perhaps do all of this away from your guitar.

Then along with your selection of riff ideas that you can copy and paste together, then you’ll have a book full of lyric ideas that you can paste over the top. If you really want to be a songwriter (music and lyrics) then you need to find a way of working that will help and the model of the songwriter plucking away and waiting for lyrical inspiration is only one way to do it.

For more tips on lyric writing just search this forum there is a wealth of advice here.

Remember it is madness to do the something the same way over and over again and expect a different outcome – get off the guitar, get a note book and get out onto the street, in bars and cafes and try to capture the drama/tension under yours and everyone's life – then find words that capture that – don’t think about writing a song just think about writing what you feel or observe others feeling.

HTH

Burt
 
I think this is a good start for me now. Thanks guys. I think that what Burt said about not thinking about lyrics as lyrics and instead just writing is going to be most helpful. It sounds really simple, but I hadn't thought about it that way before. I might still have some trouble with my guitar parts (in my 6 or so years on guitar, I think I have made only 2 or 3 completish songs), but I think I should be better off on lyrics.
 
Read. Or at least try it and see if it helps. Lately I've been finding a bunch of inspiration in books. I've been reading Sociology, Science Fiction, and horror - well not sure if it is horror (Neil Gaimen's Fragile Things) it is a collection of very poetic short stories. They almost read like songs and I can easily imagine somebody writing a song for each story if they wanted to.
My most recent song Sculpture of Despair was very much inspired by Richard K. Morgan's new book Woken Furies. The title of my song was actually part of a line in the story. Shame on me :p
 
I've been reading Saul Williams' The Dead Emcee Scrolls; The Lost Teachings Of Hip-Hop recently, which has prompted more than a few cool ideas.

I've pimped this book before in various threads:

http://www.amazon.com/Palm-Your-Hand-Portable-Workshop/dp/0884481492

With that recommendation, I include a warning that poetry and songwriting are too similar but separate disciplines. But, I think that the creative habits you can cultivate from here help you produce more, and also generate ideas.
 
azraelswings said:
I've been reading Saul Williams' The Dead Emcee Scrolls; The Lost Teachings Of Hip-Hop recently, which has prompted more than a few cool ideas.

I've pimped this book before in various threads:

http://www.amazon.com/Palm-Your-Hand-Portable-Workshop/dp/0884481492

With that recommendation, I include a warning that poetry and songwriting are too similar but separate disciplines. But, I think that the creative habits you can cultivate from here help you produce more, and also generate ideas.
Click to expand...

Good point about the deceptive similarities between music and poetry. I totally agree with you. I tried putting Emily Dickinson to music once and decided I wasn't up to the task.

On the topic of books though, this looks like an interesting read and might even help some of us in our own writing endeavors -
http://www.amazon.com/This-Your-Brain-Music-Obsession/dp/0452288525/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195264334&sr=8-1
This is your brain on music ...love that title!
 
Fluke usually...and different. The ones I like the best are the ones that turn out different to how you roughly planned. I love to make up licks or whatever while I'm recording. But usually start with a rhythm backing
 
I keep a notebook handy, when I think up a good line I jot it down. Sometimes another line comes along, sometimes not. It doesn't matter if it's a whole verse (or chorus) or just a single line or even just a really catchy phrase... write it down. When I'm writing and come to a block I look back through the ideas I have stashed back and sometimes find the prefect line to fit where I need it. Other times I'll be noodling around on guitar and come up with a riff and suddenly some of the words will just fit, when this happens I try to build on the idea and develope it into a song. This is not a formula, I just write down ideas so I wont completely forget them. If it is really a good line, sooner or later it will find it's way into a song.
 
I think it's a good idea to try and build a song and, good or bad, consider it "finished" at a reasonable period of time. It gives you a better sense of accomplishment and that will boost your confidence. :)
 
I've been writing songs for 40 years and it's very easy to build up a load of tunes with no words---I think it's very important to stay with the one tune/song until you have finnished it.

Don't wait for the words to come sailing though your bedroom window---it's like learning guitar--it's hard work or a labour of love---I take the journalist approch --I simply find a subject --write a storey--then edit/marry that to your tune.

Live with the tune/song--- go to bed with it--wake up with it--don't play any other tune/song until you have finnished it----

Then make sure it's listener friendly --by keeping it short --say 3 minutes or so--this is a good idea--then you won't become a bore-plus it radio friendly.

Having one good song is the perfect way to become a singer/songwriter.

Hope you have as much fun as I've had--good luck!
 
Some great advice in this topic, has sparked some ideas for me, thanks!
 
Everyone one here.....

.....has been in your shoes in one way or another. All of these ideas work in one fashion or another. Might I add one more? Try starting from your area of weakness (Lyrics/vox) and move to your area of strength (Riffs). Write a set of lyrics and polish them until you are completely satisfied. If you need help then post here. People are usually happy to offer their suggestions. Once the lyrics are set in stone then try singing/humming them with whatever melody comes into your head. Change it around until you are happy and then add your amazing guitar riffs on top of what you have. Finally, decide what you want to keep and what you need to throw away. Presto! You have a song that you are happy with. Most decent music comes from lots of building blocks and LOTS of hard work and rewrites. Yeah, sometimes it just happens like magic. More often, you need to work at it to get something that pleases you. In the end, that's all that matters. Hope this helps. Good luck, Dave.
 
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