Completely New, Advice required..

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Acoustic_Daddy

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Heya guys,

Love the site, think it's a great idea..

Now, i've been singing and playing acoustic and electric guitar for many years now, and i just bought myself a new desktop PC for my room.

I have an acoustic guitar hughes and ketner amplifier, peavy bandit 112 electric amp, maton 12 string full body acoustic guitar, as well as a 6 string acoustic maton, and a cort cl1000 electric guitar.

I am wanting to put a few tracks down on my computer, just me singing, an acoustic guitar, maybe some elctric solo's over the top, and some backup vocals.

Now, i have acid pro 4.0 and soundforge 7.0, and i am looking at buying a sound blaster audigy platinum sound card for my computer.

I am looking at a 4 track mixing desk at the moment, at my local music shop, and also at some condersor mics and a set of headphones.

Could someone explain the home recording flow chart, and also what connections i should use from device to device?

I've been told that i should mic my acoustic amp up with a condensor mic, into the mixing desk, then into my sound blaster panel..

Any help on where to start would be very appreciated!

Thanks,
Chris
 
I think you've been mildly misinformed.

1. You don't need a mixer for what you intend to do. A 2 channel mic preamp will give you better sound quality. Consider M Audio DMP-3.

2. No one in their right mind would mic up an acoustic guitar amp. That is for live performances, and pickups are inferior to simply mic'ing the guitar itself. As far as the mic goes, it just depends on your budget. They run from about $80 (Studio Projects B-1) to $2500 or more (Soundelux ifet7- ooh baby). Because you want to do vocals also, I would start with a mid-priced mic that is versatile, and decide later if you want to use other mics. I like AKG C2000B (under $200), but others will rcommend CAD M179, ADK A51 Vienna or Hamburg, or Rode NT1a, any of which are functional basic mics. Later you may want to try small diaphragm condensers for guitar, which many people prefer, but they are not usually great vocal mics. For cheap, Marshall MXL 603s is adequate. Mid priced favorites include Studio Projects C-4, Rode NT5, AKG C451, and Shure SM81. Such mics are often used in pairs.

3. For recording the electric guitar, use a good dynamic mic on the guitar amp. Shure SM57 is functional and cheap. I prefer Sennheiser e835, which is also cheap, but that's just me. Sennheiser MD421 is closer to $300, and rocks. It is also usable as an alternative vocal mic for singers that don't sound good through whatever condenser you select.

Plug the mic into the mic in on the preamp, and the line out of the preamp into the line in of the soundcard, and do your mixing in the recording software. Keep the signal chain simple, and buy the highest quality components you can afford. Don't run acoustic guitars through amps to record them, and don't plug electric guitars in directly. Use microphones. Best of luck.-Richie
 
Ritchie's advice sounds like a good place to start, and should give you enough to think about for a day or two. I just wanted to say welcome aboard and if you hit a snag pop back in and ask questions.
 
Another option is to get a 2 channel interface like the M-Audio AudioPhile, instead of the Soundblaster and DMP3. The AudoPhile will have preamps on it already and will function as the soundcard as well. All in one solution.
 
Listen to Richie. For an audio card, I recommend the M-Audio Delta 44 ($150). I do not like audio interfaces that come with preamps, and I do not like USB. They will eventually make you sorry you bought them.
 
Thanks very much for the replies guys!

All this american equipment will be compatbile with my Australian stuff i'm guessing?

So i want;

2 channel pre-amp (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/DMP3-main.html)
condensor mic (i'll ask the guys at the music shop)
sound card (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/DMP3-main.html)

So i plug the mic onto the preamp using the mic jack, then a guitar style lead from the preamp to the sound card panel? The sound card looks as though it has the guitar style inputs in it..

So i suppose i then just use 1 of the 2 channels i have available on the preamp, and say, record the acoustic rythym track, upload it to the computer, then record the vocals on top of the rythym track.. So in acid pro, i'd have one track for rythym, and one for vocals? Thats why i only need 2 channels?

Also, i have the cash to buy the sound card and preamp, but i need a reliable american supplier where i can purchase the items.. anyone got any suggestions?

Thanks,
Chris
 
Not exactly. The line out from the preamp is a "balanced" connection. That uses a TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) cable, which is often mistakenly called a stereo cable. It looks like a guitar cable (a TS or tip-sleeve cable), but has 3 conductors instead of 2. It is often referred to as a 1/4" patch cable. the DMP-3 uses an external AC to DC transformer also known as a "wall wart". If you buy it in Australia, it will come with the correct power supply. If not, you will need to buy a wall wart in Australia that outputs the appropriate voltage and amperage. You may be able to order the preamp with the correct transformer if you specify Australian voltage. All other connections should be compatible with your electrical supply. A 2 channel preamp is desireable because eventually, you may wind up with a matched pair of mics for stereo recording, or may find that recording acoustic guitar with 2 mics in different positions, and blending the 2 signals, gives you more options in acoustic guitar sound. Stereo recording is commonly done with the pairs of small diaphragm mics I mentioned above. As Rode mics are made in Australia, they may be attractive price wise, as will AKG, which are made in Austria. ADK mics are made in Canada, and will probably be attractive in terms of tariffs. Sennheisers are made in Germany, Studio Projects, Shure, and CAD in the U.S. You'll probably get killed a little less on the userous taxes if you buy European, Canadian, or Australian products. Unfortunately, I don't know of a cheap preamp from the EU that will beat a DMP-3. I could recommend many good American sources for gear, but I don't know who will ship to Australia. I would start with 8th street.com and Musiciansfriend.com. Best of luck.-Richie
 
Thanks for the speedy reply Richard! I was checking out your website before, nice equipment!

Anyway, i'm still a little hazy as to the actual recording process. I plug the sound card into my computer, plug a 1/4" patch cable from the sound card, to the preamp. Then, i plug the mic into the preamp, open up sound forge, click record, talk into the mic, and there will be sound being recorded onto the computer?

Then, i'd just have to experiemtn with mixing the different tracks i lay down onto the PC, with acid pro?

I'm going to start searching for australian music gear supplier, as musiciansfriend.com doesn't seem to do Australia, even though they call themselves the 'world's largest music gear company' :P

Thanks heaps for your help, Richard!
 
You know we're all here for you, mate. Your mission is to record each track as loud as you can without causing "clipping", nasty distortion which occurs when a signal overloads any component in the signal chain. You can then adjust the relative volume and left/right position (pan) of each track, in the software. You will need some good headphones to start. I like Sennheiser HD280 Pro, personally. Relatively early on, you will want a pair of powered monitors to play the music back on. These are glorified computer speakers that are designed to produce all of the sounds on your recordings, including things that sound bad. If you don't know they are there, you can't get rid of them. Be advised that good monitors will give you sticker shock, big time, but good mixing can't be done without them.-Richie
 
Well, I've swung back the other way now, as i visited my local music store today..

They recommended the Tascam US-122 Unit, because it does 24bit/96, has XLR (Mic inputs), has it's own preamp, and also has phantom power for the condensor mics.. It's also it's own soundcard?

The package they quoted me is a Tascam US-122, Samson condensor microphone, and Roland headphones, which he said will get me going straight away with my acid pro and soundforge software..

All us, it was $600AU, which is roughly $470US. I've gotta wait 4 weeks for the unit to come in though :(

Is this a good little beginner unit?

I've been searching around this forum, and alot of people seem to be using it.. The guy at the store said they are a very popular unit..

Any comments, suggestions are welcome and appreciated!

Thanks,
Chris
 
Hmm, the more i look at the USB devices, the scareder i become :eek:
 
Where in Australia are you? I would rather a PCI based sound card over USB personally. Also I read somewhere that people have complained about the phantom power not being able to adequately power both mic channels. I have no experience with the US-122, just what I read.

A basic PCI interface like the M Audio Audiophile 2496 has pretty much the same features as the tascam, and is cheaper. It doesn't have phantom power or mic preamps so you'll need a mic preamp as well, but I think it would save you hassles in the long run.

http://www.musicianswarehouse.com.au/default.aspx?Pg=21&ProductCode=DELTAAPHILE

BTW - Musicians Warehouse is the online version of Allans music, so they shouldn't be dodgey.
 
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I'm in melbourne..

Now, with that m-audio card, i'll still need a pre-amp won't I?

The only reason i liked the us-122 is because it has everything in one.

It's cheaper than going the audiophile + a preamp..

EDIT: I just saw you edited your post to address my query ;)

So, i suppose i could go the audiophile + dmp3 2 channel preamp..

But then, it's $221 + $308 ($529) instead of $350 for the tascam us-122..
 
Acoustic_Daddy said:
I'm in melbourne..

Now, with that m-audio card, i'll still need a pre-amp won't I?

The only reason i liked the us-122 is because it has everything in one.

It's cheaper than going the audiophile + a preamp..

EDIT: I just saw you edited your post to address my query ;)

So, i suppose i could go the audiophile + dmp3 2 channel preamp..

But then, it's $221 + $308 ($529) instead of $350 for the tascam us-122..
Click to expand...

It will also sound a lot better. I doubt very seriously the us-122 preamps are worth a shit. But, hey, maybe I'm wrong. "Buy cheap, buy twice"--sonusman.
 
Apparently the preamps aren't that bad in the tascam... Well, for beginners use anyway..
 
Same boat

Hi, I don't mean to hijack this thread, just wanted to say I am in the exact same position as you - looking to do some recording on my computer, just starting out. No equipment. Went to Allan's Music (I'm in Brisbane) and they recommended the us122. Now, after hearing what some of you say, I'm having second thoughts...although I agree with Aucoustic_D. that the $530 for audiophile + dmp3 is a heavy cost combined.

Now, I looked at a cheaper preamp than the dmp3, called "Audio Buddy" also by m-audio, aus$173.

I wonder if this, coupled with a decent audio interface (I subscribe to the PCI rather than USB opinion) will make a better team than the us122, for nearly the same price? Suggestions?

Aucoustic_Daddy, if you did get the us122 let me know what you think, yeah?
 
Hi mate.

I ended up spending around the $650AU mark (30% discount at my local music store cos i'm such a good customer :P), for a Roland Edirol UA-25 ( http://www.edirol.com/products/info/ua25.html ) which is Rolands version of the Tascam US-122..

It's been great so far, and i matched it up with a Samson CO1 Condensor mic, Pop filter, and Roland headphones..

It does the job perfectly, and no major hassles installing either..

I'll post up some recordings done with it soon.. The preamps in the edirol seem quite good, and i couldn't see the reason in spending more money on the DMP3 and a PCI card if you're just going to do 2 channel home recording.. It all does the same job. USB handles 2 channels fine..

The edirol unit is $100au more than the tascam, but has a filter on it to stop clipping..

Let me know if you need any other help..
 
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