Complete Newbie new to recording drums

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loopyloo

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Hello all

I'm a drummer and have been for about 11 years. I would like to start recording some of my playing, but am completely unaware of how to go about doing so.

I originally thought that I could buy something like the M-Audio Delta 44...and plug my microphones directly into that, and use Audacity to record each mic as a separate channel. But then i hear something about preamps, what are these? Is it foolish to think I can plug mics straight into my computer!?

I have a Shure SM57 and I will be buying some condensers for overheads. So there will be three mics in total...I don't intend on spending bags of cash - I'm 17 and the band I'm in isn't exactly professional!

Could someone please explain exactly what I need to record my drums on my computer?

Thank you very much. :)
 
I don't use a computer for my stuff but from reading the info here, I would say you need an interface with a minimum of 4 inputs, preferably 8 if you want to close mic your toms or whatever.

The 57 will sound good on snare but (imho) when you go to look for overheads, I'd look at a pair small diameter condensers (SDC). Mainly because I'm guessing your room is not treated and I would think a LDC would pick up too many bad reflections and nulls. I use the Shure KSM 109's. For kick, there's a bunch of options but I use a Beta 52 and a D112, depending on the song. A dedicated kick mic is a good idea.

Check out this link and google "Tweakheadz" for more info...

http://homerecording.about.com/od/recordingtutorials/a/glyn_johns.htm

Luck man.......Kel
 
Thanks or the reply and the link

But I'm a real newbie, what do you mean by interface? Would what I was originally planning on doing (with the delta 44) work, presuming I only have 4 mics??
 
I realise you don't want to spend bags of cash, but a FP-10 aka the presonus Firepod is an 8 channel firewire interface which I've just invested in and it kicks ass.

You can get it, and similar from Thomann.de

There will probably be a 4 channel one too.
 
Right, so you want to record your drum kit on a budget

You will need:

Kick Mic (D112, Beta52, e901, Beta91)
Snare Mic (sm57)
2 x Overheads (e614, e914, SE1)

You will need a 2 input audio interface (USB/Firewire/PCI). If I were you I would buy a cheap USB interface with 2 inputs, or whatever you find that seems good. I would then buy a small mixing desk (i.e. a spirit folio) with phantom power (the overheads/some kick mics need a power supply, called phantom). You plug the output of the desk into the 2 inputs (L and R) of the audio interface.

This is probably the cheapest option I would think.
 
Waffle is giving you a whole lot of bad or misleading info there.

The Delta 44 is a digital convertor, it converts analog signals to digital to get them into your computer and back to analog to get them back out of the computer.

Microphones need pre amps, these can be built into a mixing desk, built into a digital convertor card or as a stand alone piece of equipment.

If you want full mixing control of your drumkit after it's been recorded you will need a minimum of 4 mics, 4 pre amps and 4 chanels of Analog to Digital conversion.

Like I said the Delta 44 is a 4 chanel convertor only, no pre amps. To record drums on 4 tracks with it you would need a small mixer with 4 built in mic pre's and either direct outputs or insert points on each channel. You will also need phantom power on two of those channels for your SDC's

Already you can see the money mounting up. The only advice I can give you is read, read, research and read more. If you buy the cheapest equipment you can afford to get the job done expect to get cheap sounding results and expect to trade in the trash you bought a few months down the line when your ears start to grow. That's just how things go in this pastime/hobby/business. Save, save, save and read everything you can get your hands on while you are saving enough to get yourself some brand name equipment.

Good luck.
 
The Delta 44 part was my bad. :confused:
My ignorance about compooter recording knows no bounds. :p

But like Lemon-dude said...do alot of reading. Don't do what I did which was just start buying stuff cuz I wanted to start recording NOW. I ended up buying some cheap assed stuff that my knowledge and my ears outgrew in a year.

Luck to ya man..............Kel
 
LemonTree said:
Waffle is giving you a whole lot of bad or misleading info there.

The Delta 44 is a digital convertor, it converts analog signals to digital to get them into your computer and back to analog to get them back out of the computer.

Microphones need pre amps, these can be built into a mixing desk, built into a digital convertor card or as a stand alone piece of equipment.

If you want full mixing control of your drumkit after it's been recorded you will need a minimum of 4 mics, 4 pre amps and 4 chanels of Analog to Digital conversion.

Like I said the Delta 44 is a 4 chanel convertor only, no pre amps. To record drums on 4 tracks with it you would need a small mixer with 4 built in mic pre's and either direct outputs or insert points on each channel. You will also need phantom power on two of those channels for your SDC's

Already you can see the money mounting up. The only advice I can give you is read, read, research and read more. If you buy the cheapest equipment you can afford to get the job done expect to get cheap sounding results and expect to trade in the trash you bought a few months down the line when your ears start to grow. That's just how things go in this pastime/hobby/business. Save, save, save and read everything you can get your hands on while you are saving enough to get yourself some brand name equipment.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

I was merely trying to provide a lower cost option. Of course you shouldnt do it this way if you wanted to control all the parameters on a DAW, but the whole audio interface and preamp setup can be achieved for cheap, so its still a valid option?

No? :( Prehaps ive been bodging things for too long now and should stop handing out advice ;)
 
Ok. Thanks everyone for all your replies. I've got some more question. :)

I've had a look at some Presonus stuff and yeah that FP10 seems a little out of my budget! However, the Presonus Firebox looks interesting. It has 2 PreSonus microphone/instrument preamplifiers and 2 analog line inputs. Would it be possible to plug my two stereo condensers (haven't got them yet) into the microphone inputs (as they would need phantom power) and then plug my SM57 (snare) and maybe another mike into the analog line inputs? Or would this not work?

I'm thinking about getting the behringer C-2 Matched pair condensers as they're quite cheap. Any opinions on these?

Thanks!
 
loopyloo said:
Ok. Thanks everyone for all your replies. I've got some more question. :)

I've had a look at some Presonus stuff and yeah that FP10 seems a little out of my budget! However, the Presonus Firebox looks interesting. It has 2 PreSonus microphone/instrument preamplifiers and 2 analog line inputs. Would it be possible to plug my two stereo condensers (haven't got them yet) into the microphone inputs (as they would need phantom power) and then plug my SM57 (snare) and maybe another mike into the analog line inputs? Or would this not work?

I'm thinking about getting the behringer C-2 Matched pair condensers as they're quite cheap. Any opinions on these?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You would need to buy DI boxes. They take the 3 pin balenced XLR connector in, and output a single line (such as would go into the line in). You would have to turn the gain right up on the channel as mic level (coming out of the DI) is much quieter than line level (what the input accepts).
You would need passive DIs or active DI's with a battery.

You might also want to check the interface can record 4 channels at the same time.
 
You seem to be ignoring one of the most important parts which is the kick mike. In my opinion a drum sound isnt complete without a full kick sound (unless your in an acoustic extremely light band where the kick is kind of ignored), and you can even use that Sm57 for a bass drum(from what i here..never tried it myself). Just thought I would tell you to consider that man...Good luck :)
 
tddrummer said:
You seem to be ignoring one of the most important parts which is the kick mike. In my opinion a drum sound isnt complete without a full kick sound (unless your in an acoustic extremely light band where the kick is kind of ignored), and you can even use that Sm57 for a bass drum(from what i here..never tried it myself). Just thought I would tell you to consider that man...Good luck :)
Click to expand...

I will probably be buying a kick mike - but the reason I started this thread was because I'm clueless as to the actual hardware needed to get my beats on my computer. Thank you for your concern though :D
 
Waffleness said:
You would need to buy DI boxes. They take the 3 pin balenced XLR connector in, and output a single line (such as would go into the line in). You would have to turn the gain right up on the channel as mic level (coming out of the DI) is much quieter than line level (what the input accepts).
You would need passive DIs or active DI's with a battery.
Click to expand...

Again really bad advice. A DI box is for LINE LEVEL instruments, think guitar, bass, keyboard. They take IN a single line and OUTPUT a balanced XLR connection. You need a mic pre amp to BOOST the mic level to a suitable signal strength for recording...this is the main purpose of a mic pre.

Behringer C2 matched pair: Currently one of the cheapest matched pair of SDC'd on the market. They are cheap for a reason 1. they sound like ass on most everything and 2. they're made by behringer. I'm not going on a behringer bashing rant here but do a search on here for behringer fault, behringer problem, broken behringer, etc and you will soon see a substantial amount of displeased customers.

The best thing you could do here is tell us exactly what equipment/software/computer specs you already have, what your budget is and what results you hope to achieve. That way a more thurough assesment of your needs can be made and a suggestion or two might just crop up in here that will help rather than hinder you.


WAFFLE: take your own advice and stop giving bad advice. You too could benefit from a whole lot more research and reading.
 
Last edited:
Ok, thanks. This is what I currently have:

Computer:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 @ 3Ghz,
6GB DDR2 800 RAM,
Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mobo with integrated 8-channel hi-def audio,
Spare PCI slot
Spare PCI-E x4 slot
Windows Vista Ultimate

EDIT: No software at all other than Audacity...

Microphones:
Shure SM57
A couple of cheapys

Recording Equipment:
None.

What I want to achieve:
...the ability to record my drumming at an alright level - I don't need it to sound like a proper studio recording. Anything better than how using my single SM57 sounds at the moment, when connected directly to the mike in on my comp. :)

For this, I realise I need more mikes obviously. So, if i use my SM57 for the snare, then I would like to buy one kick mike and two stereo overheads. Although the area around my kit is quite cramped - I don't know if having the overheads quite close would have an adverse affect on the recording(?)

Budget:
I realise this is gonna be more expensive than I at first thought... I guess that's the price I pay for being a drummer...:rolleyes:

So I'm afraid an absolute maximum would be about £350. That is, for a stereo pair of overheads, a kick (maybe just another SM57?), and the boxes that let me connect 4 inputs into my computer.

Now maybe that's wishful thinking...I don't know.

Thanks for your help guys.
 
£350..not a lot but it's a good start to getting MORE than an "alright" drum recording. You have PLENTY of power with your PC so no worries there means more money to spend on equipment.

I'd go the mixer and A/D converter card route giving me more room to expand and add to my setup as time goes on.

Off the top of my head...


Mixer: Yamaha MG124C retail at £149.99 you could pick one up on ebay for £100 or less. This will give you 6 mic pres with phantom power, EQ, Insert points (you can use these to feed your audio card), headphone output, monitor output etc. It's a nice little mixer and its made by Yamaha, good reputable company with good customer support and waranty.

Soundcard: M-Audio Delta 1010LT: around £120 new, they go used all the time on ebay for around £50. This will give you 8 inputs into your computer so there is room for future expansion or for recording other members of the band at the same time as your drums. It's a 24bit 96KHz 8in/8out audio card with the bonus of midi (whether you need it or not.). The 1010LT has 2 built in mic pre's without phantom power and 6 line inputs. M-Audio have been around for a few years now and have good customer service, good solid drivers.

If you couple your mixer and soundcard you can use the 6 mic pres on the mixer connected to the 6 line inputs on the 1010LT and 2 line outputs of the mixer to the two mic pres on the Delta card or 2 mics directly into these...whatever way you work it out you have the ability to record 8 different mic signals on seperate channels on your computer....4 for drums, bass, guitar, keyboard & vocals...all at the same time. With each element of the band on its own track you have a LOT more control over how good you can make everything sound.

Mics: you say you need SDC's for overheads. Someone mentioned the behri C2's..... I say the AKG Perception 150. AKG have a new line out so these have taken a HUGE fall in price recently. www.dv247.com are knocking these out in pairs for £79 quid. I've used them on drum overheads, acoustic guitar, fiddle, piano, a choir...all with great results, they are great little mics.


That comes to £340 if you buy everything brand new but if you do your shopping on ebay for the mixer and Delta you've only spent £230. Leaves you £120 for a drum mic and all the cables and stands you'll need.

Using a mixer will eliminate any latency in your monitoring which can be very putting off, especialy for a drummer. You say you have some "cheapo" other mics so you can use these on other instruments to get an initial recording so the whole band is playing together.

That's my first thoughts on your budget for what you want to achieve. No doubt someone will chime in with a one-box-does-all wonder that has slipped my mind :D

You're young, you're starting out, so read everything you can and build yourself up a list of possible routes and equipment choices and save till you can afford what you need. Refrain from the temptation to buy the cheapest you can to get your job done because ANYONE who has started out on this path knows if you buy cheaply, you shall surely buy twice. Buy quality and it will last you till you outgrow it...and it'll have held it's price well when you want to sell it on.

Good luck with it,

Alex
 
Excellent - thanks a lot LemonTree for getting me started.

I'll be looking into it all. :)
 
LemonTree said:
£350..not a lot but it's a good start to getting MORE than an "alright" drum recording. You have PLENTY of power with your PC so no worries there means more money to spend on equipment.

I'd go the mixer and A/D converter card route giving me more room to expand and add to my setup as time goes on.

Off the top of my head...


Mixer: Yamaha MG124C retail at £149.99 you could pick one up on ebay for £100 or less. This will give you 6 mic pres with phantom power, EQ, Insert points (you can use these to feed your audio card), headphone output, monitor output etc. It's a nice little mixer and its made by Yamaha, good reputable company with good customer support and waranty.

Soundcard: M-Audio Delta 1010LT: around £120 new, they go used all the time on ebay for around £50. This will give you 8 inputs into your computer so there is room for future expansion or for recording other members of the band at the same time as your drums. It's a 24bit 96KHz 8in/8out audio card with the bonus of midi (whether you need it or not.). The 1010LT has 2 built in mic pre's without phantom power and 6 line inputs. M-Audio have been around for a few years now and have good customer service, good solid drivers.

If you couple your mixer and soundcard you can use the 6 mic pres on the mixer connected to the 6 line inputs on the 1010LT and 2 line outputs of the mixer to the two mic pres on the Delta card or 2 mics directly into these...whatever way you work it out you have the ability to record 8 different mic signals on seperate channels on your computer....4 for drums, bass, guitar, keyboard & vocals...all at the same time. With each element of the band on its own track you have a LOT more control over how good you can make everything sound.

Mics: you say you need SDC's for overheads. Someone mentioned the behri C2's..... I say the AKG Perception 150. AKG have a new line out so these have taken a HUGE fall in price recently. www.dv247.com are knocking these out in pairs for £79 quid. I've used them on drum overheads, acoustic guitar, fiddle, piano, a choir...all with great results, they are great little mics.


That comes to £340 if you buy everything brand new but if you do your shopping on ebay for the mixer and Delta you've only spent £230. Leaves you £120 for a drum mic and all the cables and stands you'll need.

Using a mixer will eliminate any latency in your monitoring which can be very putting off, especialy for a drummer. You say you have some "cheapo" other mics so you can use these on other instruments to get an initial recording so the whole band is playing together.

That's my first thoughts on your budget for what you want to achieve. No doubt someone will chime in with a one-box-does-all wonder that has slipped my mind :D

You're young, you're starting out, so read everything you can and build yourself up a list of possible routes and equipment choices and save till you can afford what you need. Refrain from the temptation to buy the cheapest you can to get your job done because ANYONE who has started out on this path knows if you buy cheaply, you shall surely buy twice. Buy quality and it will last you till you outgrow it...and it'll have held it's price well when you want to sell it on.

Good luck with it,

Alex
Click to expand...
Great advice throughout this thread Alex. I agree with it all, but i'm gonna have a go at the £350 budget :D.
 
pandamonk said:
i'm gonna have a go at the £350 budget :D.
Click to expand...


Oh come on...I started out on a stolen Tascam porta 01...I had to go busking in the high street to make money to buy cassettes for recording on it, £350 is LOADS these days :D
 
Is £350 for absolutely everything: acoustics, mics, pres, AD/DAconvertion, interface, software, monitors?

If so, that's a tricky one, but:

For acoustics, you can buy knauf rocksilk RS45 for £20-30 for a pack of 10. 10 is the minimum amount i'd recommend for a control room, but 20, shoud do for for control and live, imo. So £40, plus cost of frames(roughly £2.12 per frame from B&Q, 12' of 34mmx18mm - comes in 8') £30 and fabric(as cheap as you can find roughly 25-30m of 60", check ebay). If you find a good deal, acoustics could cost you £100.

There are some good budget mics on www.thomann.de. Check out the BD300-£37.99 or bd200-£20.94 for kick, sc300-£20.94 or mb75-£24.04 for snare and I use Naiant MSH-2s(I used to sell for £24 each) or SC300s, but am selling 2 Naiant flat X-Ts(upgrades to msh2s) for £67+3p&p. My sugestion would be BD300, SC300, and 2 X-Ts = £128.93, or for cheap BD200, and 3 SC300s = £83.76.

For preamps, i'd recommend m-audio dmp3-£113.98 if our budget allowed, but my cheapest option is SM PRO AUDIO PR4-£57.38.

For ad/da convertion/interface, i'd recommend the presonus inspire 1394-£107.01(with a dmp3), m-audio delta 44 or something similar, but my cheap option is the ESI MAYA 44-£73.66(for either USB or PCI, i'd recommend the PCI if possible).

For software, it has to be cockos reaper-$50(£32.13 today), with all the features you'd expect from something +10x that price.

Some decent budget monitors are Behringer TRUTHs-£208.58-£258.21 or Alesis M1 mk2s-£213.24, but even on my cheap suggestion, i'm almost out of budget before monitors.

I would never scrimp on monitors. Infact, i probably wouldn't on anything if i could avoid it, but especially not on the source(talent, instruments and room acoustics) and your playback(monitors, ears/experience and room acoustics).

So in conclusion, my full recommendation is:
Acoustics - £100
BD300 + SC300 + 2 X-Ts - £128.93
DMP3 - £113.98
Presonus Inspire - £107.01
Reaper - £32.13
and Alesis M1 mk2s - £213.24

Total = £695.29


My cheapest recommendation is:
Acoustics - £50(buy 10 for tracking)
BD200 + 3 SC300s - £83.76
SM PR4 - £57.38
ESI MAYA 44 - £73.66
Reaper - £32.13
Headphones(SHHH!!!), i don't know what to suggest, but to keep in budget i'm gonna say SONY MDR 7502 - £48.07

Total = £345(In Budget :D)

All my prices are from www.thomann.de apart from my own. I would seriously recommend buying monitors and properly acoustically treating over mixing on headphones, and you do get what you pay for in quality for the others.
 
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