Compensating for one's normal age-related high-frequency hearing loss...

[Ally-007]

Today, I did a search for 'presbycusis compensation software'. The sort of program I envisage would present the user with some sliders that let you adjust the volume of various high frequency tones, so that they all sound equal in volume. From there, the program would automatically apply a bespoke EQ curve to the computer's audio output. I was a bit surprised that nothing showed up.

 

[Folkcafe]

Our ability to hear higher frequencies (above about 1kHz) tails off increasingly (typically) as we pass the age of about 20. One graph I've seen suggests that the average 70-yr-old man's abilty to hear 8kHz frequencies is reduced by about 60dB! So music mixed and mastered by an 'old' person, without some form of compensation, is likely to sound way too bright, to a 20-yr-old listener. Can anyone offer any suggestions for us older producers, re mixing and mastering, with this in mind? I guess compansating with EQ is probably the obvious approach, but what do you think?
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I didn't see much of the practical in this discussion, so here are my thoughts and experience.

There are a number of approaches to mixing. Some favor low volume mixing and there are hip hop and rock producers that mix with very loud monitors (many claiming they need to feel the music). There was a quote I read (wish I could remember the engineer) that said, "the soul of music is in the mid-range". The example he gave was you could be in a grocery store listening to a very frequency limited sound system and a good song come on, you are still going to groove to it. Given the way most people listen to music these days, the approach to focusing on the range between 400 to 8khz makes a great deal of sense.

I only know of a couple of 70+ year olds with what I'd consider great hearing. Since this seems to be the old timers thread, how many here are delivering industry standard mixes and masters? I stopped around my 50's when I shut down my live sound and recording company and left my job at a commercial studio. I've since worked on a few vanity projects with a good friend that I am certain got listened to by at least a dozen or so people. So, first piece of advice, be realistic about what you are doing and why.

I'm not aware of any tools that will allow you to compensate for your hearing but there are a few that will let you visualize sound. I like Izotope Insight for its spectral view so I can at least see how much energy there is outside my range of hearing. I tend to work first on getting a mix to translate well on limited band monitors or my phone first. Then I borrow a younger set of ears at final to make sure there is nothing offensive in that upper register.

Anyway, here is a guy that has done a decent job considering he spent 3 years in front of a Marshal stack turned up to 11 while touring as the opening act for Kiss. Good artist, producer and engineer. He did this 11 years ago and got little traction even though his old band has a die hard fan base.

 

[Ally-007]

I didn't see much of the practical in this discussion, so here are my thoughts and experience.

There are a number of approaches to mixing. Some favor low volume mixing and there are hip hop and rock producers that mix with very loud monitors (many claiming they need to feel the music). There was a quote I read (wish I could remember the engineer) that said, "the soul of music is in the mid-range". The example he gave was you could be in a grocery store listening to a very frequency limited sound system and a good song come on, you are still going to groove to it. Given the way most people listen to music these days, the approach to focusing on the range between 400 to 8khz makes a great deal of sense.

I only know of a couple of 70+ year olds with what I'd consider great hearing. Since this seems to be the old timers thread, how many here are delivering industry standard mixes and masters? I stopped around my 50's when I shut down my live sound and recording company and left my job at a commercial studio. I've since worked on a few vanity projects with a good friend that I am certain got listened to by at least a dozen or so people. So, first piece of advice, be realistic about what you are doing and why.

I'm not aware of any tools that will allow you to compensate for your hearing but there are a few that will let you visualize sound. I like Izotope Insight for its spectral view so I can at least see how much energy there is outside my range of hearing. I tend to work first on getting a mix to translate well on limited band monitors or my phone first. Then I borrow a younger set of ears at final to make sure there is nothing offensive in that upper register.

Thank you kindly for your input, Folkcafe. I think I know the quote you were referring to, re the midrange; I saw a YouTube vid with a title to that effect, recently. Having a young pair of ears to borrow would be useful, but that's not something I have easy access to. But you've convinced me to start using spectrum analyzers habitually, when mixing and mastering.

I was made starkly aware of my hearing degradation, the other day: I was sitting in my garden with a friend, and she asked: "Is that your phone ringing?" I couldn't hear anything! She could, and she's 60-ish years of age! The sound turned out to be my musical door bell. I could hear it when I went indoors.

Yes, pretty nice mixing & mastering job on the John Fannon track, I think. Like him, too many ultra-loud rock concerts of yesteryear have probably taken their toll on my hearing.

 

[RedStone]

Start with balancing the low end and work up front there.

Also, manage your hearing ... Esp in the low mids. If you currently hear low mids, cherish that

 

[RedStone]

You could use pink noise (or a sine wave) to see what frequency you stop hearing during a sweep at a volume set while listening to your favourite song.

To set that level, you could import a song (rip a CD, use WASPI mode in Reaper on PC, or use Soundflower on Mac. Turn down the master fader until you hit -14 average dBFS (or -14 LUFS or -14RMS). Then, do a sweep. Higher frequencies will be less prominent (because Physics)... so pay attention to when you lose sound altogether as you sweep up. Faint sounds count. But it can tell you if you have serious HF loss or not.

THEN, get an ear flush and re-do that test

 

[rob aylestone]

I’m never certain a normal log display reveals sound very much as it makes whole octaves look more or less important. A huge Top HF section and a tiny bass guitar end make your hearing look worse than it is. If you look at the medical concentration area for people with hearing issues, its really a very part of the whole. Somebody with early top end falloff, or loss of bass wouldn't even be noticed on the official test.

 

[drtechno]

Our ability to hear higher frequencies (above about 1kHz) tails off increasingly (typically) as we pass the age of about 20. One graph I've seen suggests that the average 70-yr-old man's abilty to hear 8kHz frequencies is reduced by about 60dB! So music mixed and mastered by an 'old' person, without some form of compensation, is likely to sound way too bright, to a 20-yr-old listener. Can anyone offer any suggestions for us older producers, re mixing and mastering, with this in mind? I guess compansating with EQ is probably the obvious approach, but what do you think?
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I think the hearing loss thing is skewed garbage science. Because everyone's hearing response changes differently for several reasons. Most of the mastering engineers retire around 80 and if age was a factor, then all those engineers wouldn't be 60+ like 3/4 were this past few decades.

 

[drtechno]

I can barely hear 12k on my system... but that could just be my old speakers?
This isn't exactly a controlled environment lol

analog recording did that until you got up into neve, amek, and ssl equipment.
Because the lower end normally have a slope somewhere between 12-15K and the high end equipment rolled off at 100-200Khz electronically.
The API desk was some where in between at around 50Khz, 500 series modules 50-60Khz the last time I measured them.
That is why a lot of people that used lower end recording equipment stuck a LA2A on the end, because the emphasis filter on the sidechain that made high frequencies 15K slam into the limiter harder. Some people think its some sort of de-ess circuit, but its the opposite because it hits a limiter and not a compressor and even then its just a treble knob in the side chain.