Compensating for delay when using outboard FX

  • Thread starter Thread starter reshp1
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reshp1

reshp1

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I've always been a mix in the box guy ever since I got my DAW. I'm interested in maybe using my outboard compressor to add some color that the plugins don't have.
Just curious, do people who mix using outboard gear compensate for the delays/latencies caused by a D/A/D cycle? It's probably so small it won't make a difference in most cases, but if you're mixing a processed track with a raw track there could potentially be phase issues. If you do compensate, how do you know how much, and is there an easy workaround? I run Protools LE with a 002R if that matters.
 
When running out board gear, you can change the playback sample rate under the Hardware bar at the top. This will decrease latency, and allow to to use outboard gear in real time. It doesn't affect the recording quality, just the playback quality.

When you go to playback or mix, turn the sample rate back up, to avoid DAE errors or other warnings like (system has held off interrupts too long).

The smaller the number the less latency there will be. :D
 
rpd said:
When running out board gear, you can change the playback sample rate under the Hardware bar at the top. This will decrease latency, and allow to to use outboard gear in real time. It doesn't affect the recording quality, just the playback quality.

When you go to playback or mix, turn the sample rate back up, to avoid DAE errors or other warnings like (system has held off interrupts too long).

The smaller the number the less latency there will be. :D
Click to expand...

You're talking about playback buffer size. This doesn't matter because the DAW automatically compensates for this when recording a track to disc. I meant the delays caused by D/A conversion and A/D conversion. They should be minisule, only a few samples.
 
If you record something with a nice sharp spike to a new track it's pretty easy to see the offeset between the two.
Wayne
 
After you've recorded a track using outboard you can slide it into position under the original track manually. You just need to go into high magnification and pick a good spot where the waveforms are easy to see clearly.

This whole issue is one of the main reasons I decided to go back to mixing analog, at least as far as using my outboard. I really disliked having to slide tracks around that much, and it also slows down the process. I don't like to base decisions on a phasy track and then have to do the sliding before I can really hear what I did.
 
SonicAlbert said:
After you've recorded a track using outboard you can slide it into position under the original track manually. You just need to go into high magnification and pick a good spot where the waveforms are easy to see clearly.

This whole issue is one of the main reasons I decided to go back to mixing analog, at least as far as using my outboard. I really disliked having to slide tracks around that much, and it also slows down the process. I don't like to base decisions on a phasy track and then have to do the sliding before I can really hear what I did.
Click to expand...

What's the typical delay you're experiencing? No one ever quotes the pipeline delay in A/D convertors specs for audio but it's gotta be there. I'm guess a less than 20 samples for the round trip.
 
The amount of delay varies by equipment. It can be a very small number like 3ms per stage, or considerably larger. The numbers are kind of hard to come by sometimes too, as far as manufacturers publishing the info.

The best thing to do is to run some audio through your system, using something like drums that have a sharp clearly defined attack. Re-record the track after it has passed through all the audio gear you intend to use, and then measure the delay simply lining up the tracks and checking how far behind the new track is. That should give you a pretty accurate picture of the real-world delay you wil be dealing with.
 
Yeah, I'm a try and see kinda guy too. Lots of time at the office and no time left to record results in bbs posts instead though. :D I think I'll try it out tonight.
 
Mostly this should only rear it's ugly head when you're running parallel paths though.
Wayne
 
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