Comparing vocal warmth - SE 2200a, Solaris, Oktava MK-101, AKG c 2000 b

[alexc]

I've spent the last few hours going through the archives of condenser mic reviews - don't worry, I'm not starting another one of those "What is the best condenser mic" threads. I have a specific question.

I need to replace my M-Audio Solaris (which died on me). I'm looking to stay in the same price range ($200-300 for a new mic). I want to make sure the mic has similar sonic qualities to the Solaris, because I've gotten comfortable with it. Most reviews (and I'd agree) describe the Solaris as "natural" and "warm" - not too much accentuating on the high end. I think that's what I like about its sound, especially for my vocals.

Edit: Besides vocals, I often track my viola, and an assortment of other acoustic instruments (toy piano, small xylophones, handclaps, ukelele, melodicas, accordion).

I've narrowed it down to a few - I'm hoping there are people who may have used a few of these side-by-side?

- AKG c 2000b - I've read it's not as bright as the 1000/3000. But is this one still pretty "bright"?

- SE 2200a - Seems promising - some folks say it's "warm" but others say it's still very sibilant

- Oktava MK-101 - I don't know much about Oktava. The "warmth" seems to be a selling point. Maybe these are even too warm?

 

[darrin_h2000]

There are alot of mics at this price point...I think my AKG C2000b was a great value at $60 used...its kinda more of a mic Id keep arround to pick up cymbols...That SE2200 is pretty warm from what Ive heard...dont know about the Octavia...Id have to research that one.

You might also consider that at $300...many of the $500-1000 mics can be gotten used...Ive bought both the KSM32 and AT4047 at that price...and new...I paid $400 here for the KSM44.

 

[virtualvisions]

The sE2200a was my first mic, and I've used it for about 4 years now on an infinite range of sources.
The way I can describe it is like this. First off, it is a very sibilant mic as people have said. It has a rather sharp HF bump around 8-12khz. Having said that, it is a very "analog" sounding mic. It has a certain lo-fi warmth to it that really gives character to certain voices.

I'm assuming you're using it for male vocals?
Unless you're a deep bass I wouldn't recommend it

 

[alexc]

First off, it is a very sibilant mic as people have said. It has a rather sharp HF bump around 8-12khz. Having said that, it is a very "analog" sounding mic. It has a certain lo-fi warmth to it that really gives character to certain voices.

I'm assuming you're using it for male vocals?
Unless you're a deep bass I wouldn't recommend it

Yes, tenor male vocals. I am also hoping it will double as a workhorse mic for the many other instruments (viola, ukelele, xylophones, etc). Yes the sibilance/brightness might trouble me. Though I de-ess my vocals a lot around 6500khz, so maybe it's not a big problem. I often end up boosting like 9khz+ for "air" anyways.

Any idea of if it's at least less bright than the AKG c 2000 b? Sibilance might not be terrible, though "brittleness" is what I want to avoid the most.

 

[alexc]

You might also consider that at $300...many of the $500-1000 mics can be gotten used...Ive bought both the KSM32 and AT4047 at that price...and new...I paid $400 here for the KSM44.

Thanks. Yes, buying used is not a bad idea. I'm living abroad in Sweden right now so I'm not as familiar with the places to go, and eBay shipping is costly.

 

[Big Kenny]

I've never known what warm is, so many different ideas and such a subjective term. I like it when pros describe mics in objective terms. I.E. 5k bump, big low end, heavy mids. One mans warmth is another mans mid range.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Alex! The C2000B is *not* bright. Its response is ruler flat from 100Hz to 6kHz. It then has a very slight bump, peaking at +2db at 10kHz. That's the opposite of of "bright" or "dark". It is one of the most neutral mics there is. Frequency response is not what "warmth" is all about. "Warmth" is selective, hopefully subtle, *distortion* which airbrushes sound like a centerfold, and hopefully hides annoying detail. When we like it, we call it "warm". When we hate it, we call it "muddy".

Be advised that one man's "warm" is another man's "muddy". Whether a mic is bright or dark is another matter. Never having used a Solaris, I can't tell you what its qualities are. The C2000B I would call "neutral" and a little bit "colored". Color is a more neutral term for a piece of equipment than "warm". When we call it "warm", we are implying that we like it. When we call it "colored", we aren't telling you whether we like it or not.

The C2000B is one of the most versatile cheap mics on the planet. Personally, I like it a lot, but I think of it more as a Swiss Army mic than a main vocal mic. Vocals are one of many things I might use it on. I use them as a remote ensemble stereo pair, as overheads, on cabs, and on a variety of percussion from toms to Djembe. It's not the first mic I put up for anything. It's the second mic I put up for everything.-Richie

 

[quickmill]

I need to replace my M-Audio Solaris (which died on me). I'm looking to stay in the same price range ($200-300 for a new mic). I want to make sure the mic has similar sonic qualities to the Solaris, because I've gotten comfortable with it.





Sounds like you want another Solaris.

 

[alexc]

Be advised that one man's "warm" is another man's "muddy". Whether a mic is bright or dark is another matter. Never having used a Solaris, I can't tell you what its qualities are. The C2000B I would call "neutral" and a little bit "colored". Color is a more neutral term for a piece of equipment than "warm". When we call it "warm", we are implying that we like it. When we call it "colored", we aren't telling you whether we like it or not.

Richie and Kenny,

Thanks for the tips! So I think "neutral" is a better term for what I am after. For vocals, my worst fear is a mic adding "color" in the high end - I'd say like 3khz is very "brittle" and too much around 6khz feels "tingy" or "bright." I quite like adding around 600-700Hz and/or 1000-1200Hz on my lead vocals, while cutting "mud" at 200-300Hz. To give an idea of my taste of a "good/warm" vocal sound.

I went through a lot of mic samples at www.thelisteningsessions.com, as well as Oktava's site (www.oktava-online.com), and so far, I really like the vocal sound of the MK-101. I guess it is considered "dark" but I like the midrange qualities and how smooth and un-colored the high end is.

I was also intrigued by Oktava's MK-012, because I also track viola quite often. It seems the MK-101 is better for vocals, where as the MK-012 is better for viola. (In a perfect world, I'd get both, of course) I feel the MK-101 on the viola will be workable, where it sounds like the deadly "pops" even with a windscreen on the MK-012 might make vocals problematic.

 

[alexc]

Sounds like you want another Solaris.

Probably! It was the first condenser mic I purchased, and the only one I've ever used, really. So I am probably biased from the "wow" moment I had when I first switched from an SM-58 years ago. So I thought it might not hurt to try something else now.

Plus I have had two different M-Audio products go faulty on me in the past 2 years - one keyboard controller, one firewire interface - I'm not really gung-ho to give them more of my money right now

 

[quickmill]

Probably! It was the first condenser mic I purchased, and the only one I've ever used, really. So I am probably biased from the "wow" moment I had when I first switched from an SM-58 years ago. So I thought it might not hurt to try something else now.

Plus I have had two different M-Audio products go faulty on me in the past 2 years - one keyboard controller, one firewire interface - I'm not really gung-ho to give them more of my money right now

I had my "wow" moment with the Shure Ksm27 on vocals. It didn't take too long for the wow to fade. I guess I'm saying that if you still like the Solaris, then maybe you're not biased. Maybe the Solaris is just a good vocal mic for you.

On the cheap, I find the Mxl V67 to be a very good vocal mic. I like it more than anything I've tried in the under 300 dollar price range. If I recall correctly though the Solaris is multipattern. Do you use the mic as anything other than cardioid. If you're looking for cheap multipattern the the cad m179 comes to mind. Keep in mind I've heard neither the solaris or the cad so I don't know how they compare but theres a ton of info on the cad at this and other forums.

Good luck on your hunt.