Comments, anyone?

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Buck62

Buck62

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I posted a song here several weeks ago and it got a lot of listens.
It even got downloaded by a good number of people!

Thank You!!! :)

But, I only received 3 short responses.

I guess I was hoping to get some constructive criticism on the recording itself and the overall mix.

So, here it is....

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/248/the_mac_brothers.html

The song is called "Angel Child"

Kabudokan said.... "something doesn't sound quite polished with the production".

I'm almost inclined to agree, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

I'd be interested if someone could pick out what it is and expand on that.

Any advice would be appreciated.... Thanx! :)

Buck
 
Hey Buck,

For the life of me, I don't know what you should change to make this a better mix. Maybe Ed might find something.

The only thing that you might try is a little less pick sound on the acoustic strumming, but I really like it the way it is.

What if anything did someone say needed to be changed, just curious?

GT
 
Nice juicy transition to acoustic guitar at 0:20.

Maybe it's just that I know you are nice guys that
the "evil/angry" vocals don't work. Ya think?
I can't find any other thing wrong with the vocals.

Nice lead guitar at 3:00.

I was gonna review it but I didn't know what to make of that line:

"He'd rather die on his feet than live on his knees."

Shit, it doesn't make sense: Wouldn't you?

Somehow I think that line was a throwaway just looking for
a rhyme or some line that would sound pat.
 
wow, nice song!

I like the vocals, very tight.

and the rhythm guitar... did you play the whole track or "cut and paste" ?

mind sharing how you did the song and gears you used?

very inspring for me.... :)
 
First of all, thanx for checking out our song and giving it a close listen! :)

GT...
The comment that was made was quoted verbatim.... so I'm really not sure what he meant, but it made me give the song a harder listen and second-guess some of the mix-work.
I hear ya about the harsh pick sound (good ears!)... I always use a heavy pick and tend to strum with power... it's just my style I guess. ;)
Thanx much, bro! :)

Doc...
LMAO!!..... Nice guys + angry vocals = identity crisis :D
I guess you're right on that. We really had to stretch it to sound angry.

Thanx for catching that transition, too...it's one of my favorite parts of the song. Damn, I just LOVE digital editing! That's why we did the same thing before the ending lead part... it just sounded cool to us. ;)

The line "He'd rather die on his feet than live on his knees" is actually a slight variation of a line that came from one of S8-N's posts... circa last summer.
He said.... "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees".
That line just somehow stuck with me and it seemed appropriate in this song.
Bob will be glad to hear that you liked his lead guitarwork. :)
Personally, I thought it was some of his best stuff.
Thanx again for the "second" listen... you da man!

Leeking....
Hey! Thank You!.... Glad you liked it so much!
Okay... here's the breakdown

The acoustic guitar track was done in one take, straight through... no punch-in's, no "cut and paste". The guitar is my old Yamaha FG-335 acoustic which was mic'd with an AKG C3000 for one track and a Dean Markley acoustic pick-up for a second track. Both tracks were panned opposite eachother and eq'd differently to give it a "fat" sound... smooth on one side (mic), punchy on the other (pick-up).

The two electric guitar tracks (lead and rhythm) are both courtesy of a Line6 POD and an original 72 Fender Telecaster Thinline with dual humbuckers.
The "grungy" rhythm track is a heavily overdriven Fender Twin.
The lead guitar track is a Black Panel amp with overdrive, compression, and delay.
Some punch-in's were done during the ending lead part, but it was minimal.

The bass is an Epiphone Thunderbird bass which was run through a MindPrint Envoice (preamp).

The drums are Yamaha DTXpress electronic drums with a Pintech dual-trigger, mesh-snare.

The vocals were done with the AKG C3000 through the MindPrint Envoice.
Both the vocals and the acoustic guitar tracks were done in my home-made vocal booth.

We recorded the song on an Akai DPS-16 in 24bit/96 kHz, using Monster cables.

It was mixed to a Tascam CDRW 700 CD recorder.

That's pretty much it.
The song was written in less than a half hour and recorded in about 4 hours total time.

I hope that covered everything well enough for you.

Thanx again for listening! :)

Buck
 
Buck,

I just wanted to add, great song, playing, and message.

Keep up the great work!
 
macle...

Thanx, man... :)
I really like that line, too.
It seems to sum up the dispair and angst that almost all teens feel.
Thanx for the compliment on the mix. Maybe we were being too hard on ourselves. It's easy to be critical of yourself when you hear some of the top-notch recordings by other people in this forum and on MP3-dot-com.

GT....
Thanx again, bro! :)
I kinda felt that this was some of our best work... so far.
I'm hoping that we can continue to improve as time goes on.
We still have lots to learn, but we're slowly getting there!

Buck
 
It's a little bit difficult for me to say something about the mix due to the lousy puter speakers here at work, but the song is very good, cool guitar and good vocal melody. I'm not sure about the bass (I'm bass player so that's of course what I first listen to), I can't hear it clearly, but that can be a result of my speakers. Also the sound question mentioned above. Yes, I think too that something is missing, a little bit air, maybe you could brighten it up. On the other side: Maybe I should get me some better speakers ;-)

Anyway, good song comes first

- Ulli -
 
Ulli,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "a little bit air".
I know what you mean about lousy speakers on your computer at your job..... I have the same problem.
Fortunately, the home-computer speakers are much better. ;)

Thanx much for listening.... glad you liked it! :)

If you get a chance to check this song out on a better set of speakers, let me know if you still hear room for improvement.
It would be greatly appreciated!

Buck
 
Buck, first of all, I agree with everyone's praise of the song, performance and mix.

Since you want constructive criticism, I suggest:

-The lyrics are somewhat uneven, in that they have an irregular meter to them, which arguably is not right for a song with such a steady beat. I think the problem with the line he'd rather die on his feat than live on his knees is that it makes him sound almost heroic, which of course is contrary to the point. The last line of the song about killing "you and me" is also a bit forced.

-Is that a delay on the lead vocal? Did you copy a second track and just offset it a little bit? In any event, I think I'd rather hear the vocal straight up for this song.

It's very impressive that this was recorded so quickly. Maybe less is more some times.
 
Buck, sounds great, really good job.

For me, the only real problem is the vocals. I think they are just a bit out of tune, not horribly, but enough so you dont get that
"polished production sound". Otherwise, really great job
 
Great song Buckaroo, listening on these pc speakers but the mix sounds real pleasing to my ears. I like the way you did the vocals...works for me. Kinda diffrent twist from that last tune I heard of your's (with Teddie). Anyway like the song a lot, if it were mine I wouldn't change anything.


David
 
Slim,
We didn't use delay or double-track any vocals.
I sang the high vocal and my partner sang the low part, then we panned them out a bit.... using plate reverb and a bit of stereo chorus (to the best of my recollection).
I'm not so sure about the metering of the vocals, I just sang it how I heard it in my head.
Glad you liked it, though.... Gracias, Senor Slim :)

DavidK,
Heh, yeah.... I guess we'll never be compared to The Everly Brothers for tightness and harmony. ;)
And the problem is revealed.... it's the vocals that aren't very polished. I'll bet that's what kabudokhan meant.
It's a good thing we have day-jobs, huh? :D
Thanx much!

David,
Glad you liked it, bro!
I guess you're right.... this is a 180 degree turn from "Doin' Nothin". We like to cover lots of different genres with our tunes.
If you get a chance, listen to some of our other songs.... you'll hear a LOT of diversity.
Thanx, man... :)

Buck
 
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I'm not quite sure what you mean by "a little bit air".
Click to expand...
Hard to say, that was my spontaneous impression. Hmmm, in this mix there are a lot of mid range frequencies, what I meant was to get the total sound a little bit more brighten, clear, maybe by adding some very high frequencies (6000-8000 Hz maybe?), so it would sound more naturally. But only in homoeopathic doses ;) All in all it's pretty good.

- Ulli -
 
Hey buck, nice recording here!

I'll start with the negative. (and I admit that I don't make great recordings, so don't take offense) There's something funny about the acoustic guitar that's panned right of center....it's it's kind of muddy compared to the one that's panned left. This makes for a kind of annoying mismatch when listening with headphones...it feels like my right ear is clogged.

At some points the vocals are overpowering. 2:02 being one of them. I guess the choruses.

The positive! Really cool song...very different from the other mac brothers stuff I've listened to. The electric guitars are very clean. The drums are pretty damn nice except during the chorus when the vocals are too loud, but that's not the drums' fault. :)

This is definately a great mix aside from the minor things I heard. Note that I'm listening with headphones, and I know that the problems would be less noticable on a nice set of speakers. This thing is really very loud which I commend you on. In fact I had to look at my volume because I thought I had left it cranked way up or something.

Are you doing this in your own studio? If so I would say that you're definately able to produce some very nice stuff....maybe you should start recording some demos for local bands!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Yo Slack,

I think you're probably right about the choruses. We sang 'em kinda loud. I guess we unintentionally followed the model of many pop songs, where the choruses are a slight bit louder than the verses.
I kinda liked the sound of the acoustic guitar, myself.... I guess it's just a matter of preference and what sounded good in my monitors at mixdown.
You're right about the overall mix being kinda loud.... we burned it "hot" to grab some attention. ;)
BTW.... we've been doing demo work for a few months now for local bands..... and we've been gaining a reputation for our work.
I'm really pleased that you like this song. :)
We appreciate your critique, my friend.... you're educated opinion and sincere praise means a lot!

Ulli,

Thanx for the second listen. We still don't have our mixing techniques "down-pat" yet... but we're getting there! ;)

Thanx again....
Buck
 
123

I think that panned acoustic would sound better balanced if
1) that little dirty part that pops in and out during verses was a bit louder and brighter, maybe a tad more presence...
2) bring the panning center during the chorus, and again, bring up the dirty guitars some, maybe phase them out a little (the dirty) for a nice stereo effect...
The hats sound a tad canned, maybe some mic postioning would help it, or some eq'ing... and, I'd like to hear/feel a little more thump outta the kick drum..
Still listening, that dirty part needs to come up during the chorus for sure. During the verse it does kinda make you feel clogged on one side, too. I think, again, that bringing up the dirty on the opposite side will balance it out better...
The multi layered voices would have greater effect if they were used more sparingly... I like it, but it would give the verse or chorus a little something extra if it wasnt thoughout.
Also, I cranked my speakers up to the point were they are ususally very loud, and had pretty low volume, might wanna check into some maximizing... :)
Cool tune... gonna check out your others...
Paul
 
Hey Buck... I just read this thread and saw all the chaos and second guessing I had caused. ;)

I listened to the tune twice now to see what I could hear, and actually, dammit, Tubedude honestly just beat me to a few of the thoughts I had.

I think the way the mix is panned it almost leaves a whole in the center. Usually I end up advising people (not here, but at AcidPlanet where I post a lot of stuff) to spread their mixes out. This one seems, especially with the way the vocals are mixed , to almost slide everything off to the side, leaving not enough "glue" in the center. Maybe move the vocals a little closer to center, or keep the main melody in the center and split the harmony left and right... (Just so you know, I have a song where I doubled the vocals and have them panned hard left and right, and was considering remixing it because it seemed to have the same effect.)

The acoustic guitar seems a little too up-front to my ear... not volume wise, but maybe a different reverb would help it sit better to me.

I also think that you could mix up the production throughout some of the song in order to emphasize different sections... Maybe a different type of acoustic part during the chorus (instead of more "straight strumming" as an example).

I still can't necessarily put my finger on it, but those are a couple ideas I thought I would throw out. (Also keep in mind I am not a mixing genius either, so don't let my words keep you up at night. lol) Lots of people thought the mix sounded great. I think it sounds good, but could maybe be improved somehow. Sorry I still suck... hope that helps a little. :)
 
LMAO @ KaBudokan!

No problemo, bro..... don't sweat the "chaos" thing. ;)
I guess that everybody hears something different when they listen to someone else's mix. Obviously, this stuff is subjective.
When EVERYONE agrees on certain things that are wrong with the mix... then you know it needs to be worked on.
So far, most of the commentary has been about "tweaking" the mix, so it seems that we haven't made any major blunders here.
I've heard some excellent suggestions... a few which we've already tried (and they didn't work), and many others that we definitely will.
We did try to make it sound spacious, though... like you said.
I think mastering would probably help this song alot.
The present mix sounds KILLER on my Event 20/20bas, on my home stereo, and in my new Ford Escape with the "top-of-the-line" sound system.
Hmmmm... I don't know, maybe I've been listening to wailing sirens for too long. :D

Buck
 
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