collaborating

A

applewormy

New member
Hi,

I was just wondering where the best place to look for collaborates is. I heard tonos.com and taxi.com are good places to find GOOD partners. Do any of you guys recommend any websites where you can find people to collaborate with?

David
 
If you have anything in mind, post your ideas here......someone may bite.....there have been some pretty good collaborations done from this site.......
 
Let's say that I have a song that I wrote pretty much by myself. My lyrics and my melodies, but with basic guitar strumming and a bad singing voice. I have some people help me with it. They redo the whole thing and I put it on MP3.com and manage to sell some CDs. These guys are gonna want a cut, right? What would be fair in that situation?
 
Artist Unknown said:
Let's say that I have a song that I wrote pretty much by myself. My lyrics and my melodies, but with basic guitar strumming and a bad singing voice. I have some people help me with it. They redo the whole thing and I put it on MP3.com and manage to sell some CDs. These guys are gonna want a cut, right? What would be fair in that situation?
Click to expand...

Most likely they will want a cut. That is something that would be worked out ahead of actually selling the CD. How much they get depends on what you agree on before they start working on it and how much change they actually do to it.
 
scottboyher said:
Most likely they will want a cut. That is something that would be worked out ahead of actually selling the CD. How much they get depends on what you agree on before they start working on it and how much change they actually do to it.
Click to expand...
Good call Scott.
Once the agreement is finalized, you still aren't done.
Either draw up a contract, or get one that has already been make up, I've seen them on the internet, and have everyone involved sign it.

It's leagal property. Just like your car, your home. Do it right, and if the worst senerio ever happens, your bung is covered. Good friendships have a way of coming unraveled when money and property are involved.
 
I prefer to pay anyone who produces/plays on my songs a flat fee (vs. points from the sale). There are plenty on good players and singers who will record for $25-$100 per song). There are also plenty of people with home studios who will engineer/produce for small amounts of cash (we know who we are). There are also plenty of people who will sing, play, record for free - but you get what you pay for,

If you do choose to use people "on spec" (meaning no cash up front but a speculation that there will be profits from the sale of music) make sure you get specific agreements in writing (for the obvious reasons). However, it is hard to determine who contributed what (and what is it worth).

A producer is normally worth more than a bass player and a singer is worth more than a drummer (no insults meant to anyone). Then you must ask, did someone simply add a guitar part, or did they really contibute to the song structure (ie: co-writer).

One of the more interesting spec arrangements I've been involved with (and one I thought was very fair) worked as follows:

The songwriter kept all publishing rights - but points for any sales of the recording were awarded as follows:

Producer = 5 points per song
Engineer = 2 point per song
Singer = 3 points per song
Musicians = 2 point per song (extra 2 points per song for solo overdubs)
Harmony Singers = 1 point per song

The producer gets more points since there is more time involved (vs. say a bass player that lays down parts and is done). The singer gets more points than the players - well just because.

In my case, I played drums on 6 songs (12 points), dubbed percussion on 2 songs (4 points) and co-produced 5 songs (25 points). In this case I think the total points came out to about 250 of which I "earned" 31 points so I got about 12% of the CD sales (after expenses). The guitar player co-produced, played on all the songs, sang harmony, etc. so he ended up with something like 100 points or 40% of the sales (but he put in alot more time).

With spec deals the key is to identify who "co-wrote" vs. who simply played
 
Supurb post, Mikeh.

Another example of getting things done before the work starts.
There are a lot of 'for hire' musicians out there.
I'm a member of the Nowrecording.com site and it has really taken off with this concept.

New small studios are popping up like dandylions in spring, giving a lot of people the oppertunity to record their songs in a pro/semi-manner. And, at prices that they can afford.
 
I've done some stuff with folks at artististcollaboration.com (re: badgas' post) Nice folks to be sure. A lot of them are in Europe, Australia, etc...which makes things a bit 'chic', I suppose.

I mainly just play fiddle/violin/viola parts for others on that site and have yet to post any of my own stuff.

I will say that I have not heard of any $ changing hands for services rendered there - which is unfortunately a rather disencentive as I get older (late 30's :-)

As a matter of fact, I've had a notion for a long time now to hire myself out for adding violin/viola/string tracks to other home-reccer's projects (I'm calling it 'CyberStrings'). The fee's would be VERY reasonable and files would all be exchanged via FTP or equal. I've actually worked this angle with a couple of very good long-distance writers. My webpage is in the works that would detail it more.

I know I'm not alone in this approach....anyone have any thoughts about it?
 
I think that's an awesome idea. I would pay reasonable prices (probably more) to have someone lay down violin tracks for me. As a matter of fact, I have an idea for a violin solo in one of my more acoustic songs (I really have a thing for the piano and violin....such beautiful instruments).

I think it would really be awesome to link your site up with other musicians who are looking to do the same thing. Create some kind of directory site. For instance, if I wanted to pay to have a piano track or a violin, guitar, accordian, or whatever, I could just go to a site, click the instrument I wanted and presto...up pop a few musicians who are looking for work. Provide a few examples for me to listen to and some contact info, instructions, etc. That would rock. I wonder if this already exists somewhere on the net.
 
Cyber-Strings?

Hi Unknown,

Thanks for the reinforcement. I'm pretty sure there are sites that do as you describe (at least to some degree), but I don't know of specific ones. Actually, it seemed like Electronic Musician magazine was pumping one, but when I logged on it was too convoluted (or not what I was expecting...it's been a few months), so I surfed on. Perhaps I'll talk to my web developer and see what setting up such a service within my own site would entail. hmmmm....

I CAN say, when my site is done, I'll provide samples of my work, style(s), bio, etc...and hopefully other writers will hear an opportunity to add to their tunes. That's my goal anyway. As it is, I am already doing this type of work even without the site. I can provide samples via FTP if you like.

The way it works is that I obtain an MP3 of the writer's song (via ftp or the like). I then fly it into Sonar and start working with string lines, harmonies, etc... Once I have an idea down, I post THAT MP3 rough mix for feedback. This exchange continues (usually 3 or 4 posts at most) until everyone's happy.

At that point, the writer sends a few dollars and I snail mail a cd containing the individual raw wav files - ready to import and do to as they wish. Pricing varies - but usually comes in @ $40 to per song (BUT that usually ends up being two or three violin tracks and/or viola...adding harmonies and such is just too easy and fun with digi-recording, sometimes I can't help myself!...anyway, I think it's a good value.)

I must say that pricing is negotiable and may vary in either direction. Big shock, eh? I must also say that money issues are tackled first in all projects - keeps things neater all around. :-)

I think a website that acts as a stable of sorts for players is a very cool idea. Honestly, it's rather beyond my original scope as I was just thinking of hanging my shingle out individually, but as I said, I'll check into expanding that notion.

Sorry for the ramble here,..I guess I'm eager to get busy. You're idea is interesting, to be sure!

In the mean time, by all means direct me to some samples of your work and I'll see if I can add something of value to it.

Thanks, and good luck!
 
Well, unfortunately I am lacking the equipment to get any kind of recording done. I'm new to all this recording stuff and just trying to figure it all out for the time being. All my songs are recorded in text files and between my ears.

I'm hoping to get myself a good soundcard and mic around August, but it could be later than that. Send me the url when you get that website set up....or I'll just send you a PM when I have something recorded to send. That is a very good price! I'll definitely let you know when I have something.
 
No problem.

Good luck on extracting your ideas and getting your DAW up and running. This is definitely a valuable board - you're in the right place. I'll post links soon.

I'll definitely start a thread when things are really ready - maybe sooner just to get more feedback form more folks.

Thanks!
 
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