Clocks

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mastahnke

mastahnke

Linux Man...
Where do I get good info about clocks and what they can do for my setup which includes a MOTU2408 and an ADAT thus far. I hear it helps, though I don't exactly understand why. If it makes a difference, I usually use Nuendo and CEP.

--MIKE
 
I'm in the same boat. I have talked to three different people who use external word clocks and they say it makes a difference. Each used a different word clock--Lucid genx-6, Aardvark, and Apogee Rosetta. Thats all I really know. I'm still looking for information, so if I learn anything I'll get back with you.
 
Clocks are important to ensure the interpretation of the digital information being passed from device to device is clean and consistent (ie, the leading/trailing edges representing the on/off states are read at the same timepoint....)

Poor clocking can affect sound quality and also introduce digital hash and artifacts that show up as pops/clicks....

I use a Lucid GenX for my BRC/ADAT/Hammerfall/Cubase system and it is excellent.......
 
SO which clocks are good for the money? Is one clock better than another? It's all 1s and 0s, seems weird to me. I like MOTU stuff, and they have an MTP and Digital Time Piece. I like Apogee too, but that name means high price. Is it worth having for just one adat and soon to be digial mixer and 2408?

--MIKE
 
The Lucids are excellent choices... and the price is reasonable.

Using a good clock is worth it anytime you have more than one digital device communicating together, for example an ADAT and digital mixer......!
 
Thank you Blue Bear for the explanation. I'd like to ask one more question before springing for the GenX. I have a MOTU MTP AV which has word clock in it. Do you know if i could get the same improvement using that as an external clock for the 2408? If not, then its Lucid time for me, but if what I have will do the trick, I'll put the money elsewhere. As I respect your knowledge and opinion I thought I'd ask while the subjects on the table.
 
Crawdad, I've not used MTP as a master clock but I'll go out on a limb here and say the GenX is a better clock. I know the GenX stacks up against clocks costing 4 times more (the Aardsync in particular). Again, it's not a wizz bang difference. If you listen to an individual track with a master clock on and then the same track with the internal clock, you'd probably be hard pressed to hear a SIGNIFICANT difference. It's when you're mixing 24, 24bit tracks that the difference becomes more apparent. I think Bruce can tell you it's like tightening of the low end, as if it was slightly blurred and it came into focus. High end and stereo image opens up.
 
Track, my man--I think you are probably right. I just figured "hey, I HAVE an external clock--might as well try it." Thats what I will be doing on the next song I'm working on. Then, I'm gonna get a really good one (Lucid, Apogee) and give that a whirl.

From what I am being told by all those who know, the primo word clock is the ticket to improving this system. I'll probably end up getting another interface too. As much as I like the convenience and tweakability of digital, I have never been happy with the sound quality. There is something blurry about it and it makes mixing a real chore. Sometimes its difficult to judge levels when I have a bunch of tracks going.

Yes, the individual tracks sound ok but when they get summed together, the blur begins. I don't think its tracking that is the problem, because i use mostly the same techniques I used before--and they used to work just fine. Then along came the DAW, and things are like a photograph where things aren't totally in focus. I hear the same thing all over the MP3 clinic. Even when a mix is "perfect" there is that little blur happening.

As I've been developing my ear, its getting more and more annoying. Sorry to rant, but I guess I have reached a point where I have to find some improvement or go crazy.

As always, thanks for your advice and help!

Craw
 
Craw, did you try the MTP thing? How are the results? I am thinking about getting one because I need a clock and more MIDI I/O, and hey two birds, one stone.

--MIKE
 
Where can I get a lucid genx? I looked a few places online ebay, sweetwater, mf and none of them had them. Is there some weird dealer that I dno't know about?
 
nevermind I found them on MF. I guess I was looked up something different last time. Anyway, is the MOTU MTP AV a decent (at least usable) clock?
 
Help me out with this clock stuff guys, as I'm a bit out of my depth here.

I understand perfectly what a master or super clock does, and why it does it.

What I'm struggling with is what type of setup requires this? I am guessing that this is only necessary when you have multiple digital audio devices as part of your signal chain, no? So if I were running external tape devices i.e. ADATs, interfacing with a computer recording setup and perhaps other devices like stand-alone cd-burners?

But if you are just, say, running a Delta card setup as your A/D converter, and recording and burning cd's on a pc, there's only one clock in the equation, the computer itself, right? So in that case I wouldn't benefit from or otherwise need a master clock?

Thanks for any input on this.
 
heinz, in the traditional sense, a master clock would be used to syncronize multiple pieces of digital gear working together.
BUT, a better clock will improve audio period, even if you only have one piece of gear. However, unless a piece of gear is equiped with an EXTERNAL WORD CLOCK INPUT, you can't use one. For example, if I were only running my HD24 and no other digital gear, I'd still clock it with the GenX6 as it has a word clock input and the GenX clock is a better one than the stock Alesis clock.
My Sony DAT on the other hand doesn't have a word clock input so the only way to utilize an external clock with it is to record into it thru S/PDIF via a source that DOES have a clock input (i.e. recording into the DAT from a DBX 386, using its converters and clocking it from the GenX) and also playing back in the same fashion.
 
Gotcha, thanks for that info TrackRat. So the external digital devices must have clock i/o, or be fed digitally through a device with clock i/o.

So I can assume that if the entire setup is self-contained (i.e. pc serves all digital needs through final cd master), sample rate artifacting or "slurring" should not be an issue.
 
That would depend on the quality of the converters and clock in whatever soundcard you're using.
 
aha! Does delta 44 have a good quality clock? I don't see any info on their pages, but aardvark seems to brag about their clocks a lot.
 
Aardvark makes a kick ass clock. The Aardsync and the GenX6 are in the same league in terms of quality.
 
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