Clocking In Mastering

J

jaynm26

New member
I want to hear opinions on word clocking in mastering been seeing a few setups with. The Antelope Atomic is what I use to hear bout never really payed attention now. But what are you guys thoughts?
 
Check the Digital/Computer Forum...I had a thread about clocks not too long ago.

If you're running multiple digital devices or some combination of digital + analog devices that need to be synchronized...then a master clock is needed.

For a single digital device...no real need for an external clock as it will actually degrade the clocking...though someone may prefer that sound (sort of like how different amounts of distortion in analog may or may not sound good to different people)...but that's a taste thing, though no need for pure clocking. For single device just use the internal clock of that device.

Now you asked specifically for *mastering* so I'm sure some of the mastering guys may have additional and/or different views...and I would listen to them.
For me, a master clock is in use because of both multiple digital devices and the synchronization of digital with analog devices...but that's just for tracking and mixing use....I don't have a formal mastering rig.

Oh...I'm using an Aardvark Aardsync at the moment, which was the original "clock" the started the ball rolling and was designed by the same guy who now does Antelope (which is nice stuff, but WAY pricey). I was almost going to get a Lucid SSG 192...but the deal fell through. Both the Aardsync I have and the Lucid SSG have built in video black burst, which is what I use as house sync because I still run tape, and that resolves best to black burst.
 
I would think the considerations would be the same from a purely technical perspective...I mean, it's just about clocking/locking a bunch of digital gear together...but there may be some artistic perpectives with mastering that put a different light on clocking, compared to non-mastering uses.

If there are different perspectives for mastering...I too would be curious to hear what they are.
 
I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't approach clocking differently for anything. (A) Make sure everything is sync'd, (B) hopefully with a quality clock. Tracking, mixing, mastering, casual listening, etc.
 
Keep in mind that digital devices only really need to be clock synced if the audio is going digitally between them. Maybe also if they're somehow running parallel. If there's an analog stage between two digital devices, there's no clocking issues.
 
If you're mastering with hardware it's probably analog hardware. No external clock is needed.

If there is digital to digital hardware connection it's probably in series so you can patch word clock in series from device to device (or let the AES3 signal handle it). No external clock is needed.

If you're mastering ITB then no external clock is needed.
 
So you mean if two digital devices were exchanging information before conversion then a clock would be needed? Why? if the mastering engineer is in the analog domain as Boulder stated?
 
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That question is a bit garbled, but...

When you've got one device sending digital audio to another in realtime via spdif or lightpipe or the like, it is sending discrete "words" at given intervals. The receiving device needs to know when to look for those words. A c-hair too early or too late and the data gets corrupted. Worse if the sending and receiving frequencies are slightly off from one another.

If you convert to analog and back, though, the source device is putting out a nice smooth analog signal. The reciever can then sample this anytime it wants.
 
D/A ->Digital Component ->Digital Component->Analog Component->A/D ...So in this situation a clock would be needed? But most mastering engineers use all hardware anyway...I mean the rare System 6000 users audio routed to that I can see. So this would be a situation where a clock would be used?
 
jaynm26 said:
D/A ->Digital Component ->Digital Component->Analog Component->A/D ...So in this situation a clock would be needed? But most mastering engineers use all hardware anyway...I mean the rare System 6000 users audio routed to that I can see. So this would be a situation where a clock would be used?
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It depends, but I doubt a separate clock source would be needed in the above situation. With a digital console and several digital I/O outboard devices I would think an external clock source might solve some problems.

S/PDIF and AES3 signals carry word clock as well as the audio so in many cases simply clocking a downstream device off an upstream device through the audio connection is perfectly adequate. In the context of home recording 99% of clocking angst is a complete waste of time.
 
Not sure what you're getting at -'digi componatnt' to ..? Let's get specific. If you're going D/A, through some hardware, then A/D back IntoABox', IF those two digi systems didn't have to be syncronized- then they could each run off their own clocks.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
In the context of home recording 99% of clocking angst is a complete waste of time.
Click to expand...

Some of us are in the 1%..... :( :D

I only use the master clock when I'm dumping from tape (or to tape) 24 tracks of audio, and I need to both synchronize the tape deck and DAW, and also use multiple 8-channel converters to transfer the audio into the DAW....or...when I'm mixing down from the DAW and going out OTB via multiple 8-channel converters to my console.

When I'm just working in the DAW and all I have is a stereo master going out for monitoring...then the master clock is off, and I just run with the converter's internal clock.

One thing though...if you're going to daisy chain from one digital device to another, it's still a master/slave clocking situation...and maybe for some folks and with some converters using a dedicated master clock to both of those devices might sound/work better...but that's a personal choice and a matter of trying it out to see what you like more....though yeah, the first device as the master feeding the second also works.
With all of that...there's also the whole terminaiton thing...
 
I haven't needed to use separate word clock connection, even simply chaining from one device to the next, in years. The last time it was necessary was with a couple of ADATs, doing a transfer to the computer and the stupid Lightpipe connection didn't provide reliable clocking. Probably cheap optical cables or something, not my gear.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I haven't needed to use separate word clock connection, even simply chaining from one device to the next, in years.
Click to expand...

So...are you saying it's becuase you're using only a single digital device...or are you saying that even with multiple digital devices you just don't bother daisy chaining WC or using any master clock setup...?
 
miroslav said:
So...are you saying it's becuase you're using only a single digital device...or are you saying that even with multiple digital devices you just don't bother daisy chaining WC or using any master clock setup...?
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If I'm connecting two digital devices and the word clock signal that's part of the S/PDIF or AES3 or Lightpipe isn't sufficient for the devices to sync reliably then I'll use the word clock connection between them if available. Almost everything I do with digital connection is simple series connection between two devices, and at least 95% of the time they clock fine from the AES3 or S/PDIF signal.

Of course if I had multiple separate converters and/or multiple parallel devices something has to be the master and everything else has to be slaved to it, and then I would have to deal with clock distribution. But I've never had a setup with enough digitally connected devices for a dedicated master clock or even just a DA from one device's word clock output to be of any benefit.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Of course if I had multiple separate converters and/or multiple parallel devices something has to be the master and everything else has to be slaved to it...
Click to expand...

This is what I was really asking...but of course, if you're just passing digital audio between two devices, then that's a different thing, the clock is in the digital audio stream.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I haven't needed to use separate word clock connection, even simply chaining from one device to the next, in years. The last time it was necessary was with a couple of ADATs, doing a transfer to the computer and the stupid Lightpipe connection didn't provide reliable clocking. Probably cheap optical cables or something, not my gear.
Click to expand...

It's multiple ADAT connections that caused me to use a separate word clock. A single ADAT device can sync fine to another device via the ADAT signal but as soon as you get into multiple devices you either need a central word clock or a carefully worked out scheme of looping and terminating a coax from one to another.
 
Bobbsy said:
It's multiple ADAT connections that caused me to use a separate word clock. A single ADAT device can sync fine to another device via the ADAT signal but as soon as you get into multiple devices you either need a central word clock or a carefully worked out scheme of looping and terminating a coax from one to another.
Click to expand...

The last time I had sync problems and used word clock was with multiple ADATS.
 
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