clipping problems in mixdown

[o_r_i_o_n]

hi everyone,
forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, i'm just not sure i've seen an answer to the problem i'm having.
i have a few multitrack sessions with many tracks which by themselves do not clip, but when played together in the multitrack or the mixdown, do clip. I guess this is just the byproduct of a lot of wav blocks playing together and boosting the overall level. This is something I've been dealing with for a long time and have been able to get around it in the past by applying clip restoration/hard limiting etc. to the mixdown... However, I would very much like to start my mastering process with as clean a mixdown as possible. Any suggestions? THANKS!!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Hmmm... ever thought of simply lowering the levels of each track so that you can sum them together without resorting to "restoration" plugs that are degrading the sound quality?

 

[o_r_i_o_n]

Hmmm... ever thought of simply lowering the levels of each track so that you can sum them together without resorting to "restoration" plugs that are degrading the sound quality?

yeah - i have tried that...but it seemed like i had to drop everything down a lot to keep the mixdown from clipping. that does however seem like the most obvious way to fix this problem. Maybe just use the master level fader to bring the whole mix down a few dB would do it...thanks!

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

How hot are your tracks? And then the secondary question, why are your recording them that hot??

 

[lpdeluxe]

If you like to boost EQ you can end up with distortion even though the individual tracks are not particularly hot and even when the meters don't show anything wrong.

 

[Adam P]

Try mixing with your master volume down between -6 and -9 dB. Once you've got your levels mixed, bring the master fader up until your clip indicators are peaking just below 0 dB. Mix down your tracks to a new file and save the Mixdown file. Insert this mixdown file into a new session and insert a compression plug-in on the track. Set your threshold and ratio, and then play the track back and adjust the output (makeup) gain until your clip indicators are again peaking right below 0 db. Once you've got the sound fine tuned, and added any other reverb or compression to the final mix, mix this track down to another new file. That should do what you're looking for.

 

[o_r_i_o_n]

Try mixing with your master volume down between -6 and -9 dB. Once you've got your levels mixed, bring the master fader up until your clip indicators are peaking just below 0 dB. Mix down your tracks to a new file and save the Mixdown file. Insert this mixdown file into a new session and insert a compression plug-in on the track. Set your threshold and ratio, and then play the track back and adjust the output (makeup) gain until your clip indicators are again peaking right below 0 db. Once you've got the sound fine tuned, and added any other reverb or compression to the final mix, mix this track down to another new file. That should do what you're looking for.

hey man, thanks for the info. question for ya, why do you say to insert the mixdown into a new multitrack session...apply compression/verb/etc....then mixdown again. I've always worked with my complete mixdown in the edit window and applied any effects like compression or verb in there. What is the advantage to inserting a mixdown into a new session and using the FX there? This is good stuff, can't wait to try it out on my mix!

 

[kylen]

hey man, thanks for the info. question for ya, why do you say to insert the mixdown into a new multitrack session...apply compression/verb/etc....then mixdown again. I've always worked with my complete mixdown in the edit window and applied any effects like compression or verb in there. What is the advantage to inserting a mixdown into a new session and using the FX there? This is good stuff, can't wait to try it out on my mix!

Adam is saying that if you put your mixdown into a new track on the multitrack then you can use a couple of inserts at the same time in the FX rack. That way you can better judge and fine tune each effect while you're monitoring in real time since they all affect each other to some degree or another. If you're using native effects that aren't available on the multitrack side then you'll have to apply them one at a time. If you have Audition 1.5 with it's VST feature then the whole world of VST plug are available...

A far as getting mixes too hot and troubleshooting for 'overs' I'd pull the individual faders of each track down like Bear recommended - it's just a good habit from outboard mixing. I don't know how Audition internal busses work or the implications of 32bit float - some posts I read seem to indicate you can go into the red but it doesn't matter, I don't know about that since I don't do it. If you get on anything else like Sonar then red means digital clip, it's just not a good habit.

A buddy of mine sent me a project to home master for him - all the mixdowns are clipped. Sometimes you can fix it with the clip repair tool - other times not, mastering is the wrong place to fix it though - remix. Run statistics on the mixdown and if 'possible samples clipped' = 0 then you're ok, if it is anything else then either the hardlimiter ate too much or you've got digital clips. Throw the track faders down a notch or 2. I do my home mastering at 96KHz 32 bit float - a clip sounds like hell up there- argh !@!#

Good Luck !

 

[Adam P]

Adam is saying that if you put your mixdown into a new track on the multitrack then you can use a couple of inserts at the same time in the FX rack. That way you can better judge and fine tune each effect while you're monitoring in real time since they all affect each other to some degree or another.

This, and because it basically allows you to set up a virtual "effects rack" of plugins and set the order and wet/dry values, and so on. In addition, doing this in Multitrack view is non-destructive to your original .wav, so if you decide later that you don't like a plugin that you've applied, you can always go back to the unprocessed mix (provided you haven't deleted or otherwise modified it). If you apply effects in Edit view, they're permanent changes to the .wav itself and can't be undone later.

 

[kylen]

Good advice from Adam here !