clip or not clip

A

amc

New member
I am using REAPER on Windows 8 and a M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R to create a final mp3 audio track from a multitrack midi song.
I do it in 2 steps, using REAPER:

1) convert all the midi tracks to audio tracks, no pan, almost no effects, nothing,.. just as "raw" individual audio tracks

2) mix the audio tracks, panning, addint comp,eq,rev... to get the final mix



My question now, in step 1. I have a song (Ain't it funny, Jennifer Lopez), that has 6 percussion tracks out of the whole 12
If I mute the 6 percussive I hear the music, no track clips and the master stays around -3db as a pick
If I unmute the 6 percussive either I barely notice them or,... if I increase their volume, they clip individually (don't know how much, REAPER doesn't tell) and in the master (6, 8 dB clip!)

The think is that the original has evident Kicks, handclaps,... so, if I want them to be relevant in my mix, either I clip a lot the master, or reduce the master by 8 or 10 dB to avoid clipping... In that case, the non-percussive instruments resulting audio track has a quite weak wave....

So, here is the dilemma: clip or not clip? weak waves or not?

thanks
 
Hi there,

First things first - A lot of people will say just turn all the tracks down so that the master doesn't peak.
That is what to do, but I presume you want your whole mix to compete with commercial material and, as such, need the overall volume raised?

The 6 percussion tracks obviously peak higher than you'd like. Compression might be the tool to go for.
Here's a GS thread about it.
 
There's no reason to be mixing that hot. Turn everything down as much as 10db, you'll be fine. Volume is not something to worry about during mixing. Volume is part of the conversation when talking about mastering, which comes after mixing. At this point, you're mixing too hot.
 
thanks,
so, no clip, under any circumstance.
I have now two options:

1) get all invidivual tracks so I can hear the mix "balanced", which means that percussion waves will be stronger than other instruments (see attached gif). I thought every instrument has to be recorded in a medium, average wave intensity

In this case I get no clip, irregular waves, .. and close to realistic sound in step 1 (MIDI to audio)

2) get all individual tracks at an "average" wave intensity, regardless I hear them or not. I will balance the volumes in the second round in REAPER.

In this case I get no clip, average waves, .. but unrealistic sound in step 1 (MIDI to audio).

which is the safer path? Maybe I am obsessed to get a realistic mix in step 1, when the real goal of that step is to get rid of midi files and get audio files (as if they were individual recordings.....)

thanks
 
You're over thinking it all. Just turn everything down 10db and mix it so it sounds good to your EARS. forget about the size, shape, or color of the waves. Stay far away from clipping and mix it so it SOUNDS good. It's really that simple.
 
Percussive instruments will always peak higher than melodic instruments, it's just their nature. On percussive instruments, the decay or sustain is what we perceive as the volume. We don't really notice how much louder the peak is, so there has to be room built into the mix to accommodate that.

In your first post, you said you had the music peaking at -3dbfs, that is way too loud. The non-percussive stuff should be closer to -15 or -20dbfs to leave room for the percussion and a little headroom above that.

After the mix is what it needs to be, then you can worry about the final volume.
 
You need to start learning mastering.

I highly suggest you get a copy of Bob Katz's book "Mastering Audio: The Art and Science"
It's available on Amazon. Well worth it....
 
FYI - Reaper has a buttload and a half of internal headroom. It's very difficult to get it to actually clip the signal inside Reaper itself. In fact, unless you've changed the default settings, it'll mute before it clips. You may be peaking beyond the top of the meters, but your not actually hurting the audio until the final stage.

Your DAC, and the rendered mix file, will clip if the Master meter is peaking above 0bdfs. You could get away with just turning down the master fader. It is good practice, though, to turn down the individual tracks instead. If nothing else, it gets you into a better habit in case you ever have to work in analog.
 
ashcat_lt said:
FYI - Reaper has a buttload and a half of internal headroom. It's very difficult to get it to actually clip the signal inside Reaper itself. In fact, unless you've changed the default settings, it'll mute before it clips. You may be peaking beyond the top of the meters, but your not actually hurting the audio until the final stage.

Your DAC, and the rendered mix file, will clip if the Master meter is peaking above 0bdfs. You could get away with just turning down the master fader. It is good practice, though, to turn down the individual tracks instead. If nothing else, it gets you into a better habit in case you ever have to work in analog.
Click to expand...

This ^ is what I have come to understand. Because (most!) DAW software uses floating point math the headroom is near infinite. You can of course clip the final stages.
One other caveat is that I have read that some plugins can clip?

Dave.
 
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