Cleaning up the mud....

P

pinhedgtr

Processing
I'm having a really hard time with the Bass drum. It sounds great until the double bass starts kicking, then it sounds all muddy. Is this something a noise gate would take care of, to help tighten up the kick? What are some other peoples methods for cleaning up the mud?

Thanks in advance.

B
 
Most of the time for dense metal mixes with a lot of double kick action, I find the bass guitar to carry more lowend than the actual kick drum. Feel the bass guitar, hear the kick drum - if that makes any sense.
 
I think you may want to loose the low's on the kick, cut out a bit 250-500 range. Experiment. Also bump up a bit around 1800 and 3800-4000hz. At least that works for my kick. For double kick work I always reduce some of the kick's low end. Fits better.
 
Is it just crummy double kicking? I had to mix a metal album with lots of 16th note kicks, but every other measure or so there'd be a stutter. Is that the problem or are you just having a hard time distinguishing between each kick?
 
Cult_Status02 said:
Is it just crummy double kicking? I had to mix a metal album with lots of 16th note kicks, but every other measure or so there'd be a stutter. Is that the problem or are you just having a hard time distinguishing between each kick?
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Good point. that happens a lot too. most of the time you won't notice it during tracking, but when you start mixing it you know somethings off, but it's hard to tell sometimes.
 
pinhedgtr said:
I'm having a really hard time with the Bass drum. It sounds great until the double bass starts kicking, then it sounds all muddy. Is this something a noise gate would take care of, to help tighten up the kick? What are some other peoples methods for cleaning up the mud?

Thanks in advance.

B
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I can't imagine what you would do with a noise gate. You're talking about mud while the kick drum is playing right?

Grab a parametric EQ and sweep a cut through around 200 to 500 hz and find the offending mud and then cut some of it out. Boost the high end to give it more definition. Same thing that has pretty much already been said.

Also just like jmorris said, I do some automation to cut out some low end during the fast double bass parts. Sometimes I duplicate the track and use just one with a fatter low end and I turn it up more during slower parts with single kicks.
 
Cult_Status02 said:
Is it just crummy double kicking? I had to mix a metal album with lots of 16th note kicks, but every other measure or so there'd be a stutter. Is that the problem or are you just having a hard time distinguishing between each kick?
Click to expand...

I don't think that is it, he is pretty consistant with his feet. It's almost like the drum is resonating too much in the low end. Like the resonance from the first strike bleeds into the second strike and so on.

B
 
Thanks for all the responses, this is good info for me. I think I will mess with the EQ some more and try the automation trick during the double kick parts.
I just thought a noise gate might cut the end resonance off of the audio and help tighten up the sound a bit.

Thanks,
B
 
pinhedgtr said:
I don't think that is it, he is pretty consistant with his feet. It's almost like the drum is resonating too much in the low end. Like the resonance from the first strike bleeds into the second strike and so on.

B
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Oh, I'd recommend tracking again, if you could, but this time possibly take off the front head and put some pillows or blankets in the kick drum to eat up the resonance. Or, bring your kick mic around by the beater head. If you're sitting in the drum throne and you're a right handed drummer, I put the mic on a low-profile mic next to the right-side rim, pointed towards the middle of the head. This will not give you too much low end, but a lot of attack, pair that with another mic in the front for some low end and mix to your liking. If you have two Beta 52s or something, put one in front and back. Or maybe a 57 on the beater head and a Beta 52, re-20, or maybe a d-112 in the front for the lowend.

If you cannot track again, refer back to jmorris' and metalhead28's posts.
 
All the advice above is great. But I think it's a tracking problem. Sounds like his kiks resonate for too long (that's just a guess based on your mention of using gates). If that's the case, then it should be easy enough to take care of. Try to get as good a sound as possible before even plugging in a mic.

When I track, I do it with the assumption that I don't own an EQ or a compressor. Of course, I end up using them later. But I try to track as if I never will and get as close as I can with just mic placement and proper tuning....and PLAYING.
 
what kinda kick mic are you using?

yeah , double bass tends to get a bit muddy when you start to really roll on it. in this case, i like to reduce the resonance of the bass drum through tuning, so you are getting really just attack and 'punch'. typically, its the decays and resonance that muds it up during double kick stretches.

i dont know if a gate is gonna help you because i'm guessing you are doing really fast double kick parts, where the gate is probably just going to stay open the whole run.

so yeah, you are probably going to have to go back to tracking on this one.

"you can't fix tracking issues during mixing." theres my quote.
 
TragikRemix said:
what kinda kick mic are you using?
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I'm using a D6 and I placed insinde the drum about half way. I've been pointing it just left of the beaters. There is a pillow in there as well, which I have barely touching the beater head and resting pretty well on the resonant head.

Maybe it's the angle of the mic, being off center. I will try pointing right at the beaters to see if that will bring out more attack and possibly kill some of the resonance?....

Thanks for all this info! I'm really starting to learn the importance of getting the instruments to sound the best they can before even hitting the record button.

B
 
Yes, try pointing more to the centre. And also, it might be too far in the drum.
 
yeah, i'm not familiar with the D6's characteristics. i know my d112 sounds good about halfway in the drum, i line it straight up with the center of the two beaters.

good luck dude.
 
pinhedgtr said:
I'm using a D6 and I placed insinde the drum about half way. I've been pointing it just left of the beaters. There is a pillow in there as well, which I have barely touching the beater head and resting pretty well on the resonant head.
B
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That's how I aim my D6, but I have it just barely inside the front head, the bottom shoulder just breaks the plane, the cable
 
Thanks for all the valuble input. I can't wait to try this during our next recording session on Weds. Guess I'm gonna have to play some more with mic placement.

B
 
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