classical singer needs DIY advice

[phil doucette]

Hi recording geniuses,

I'm a classical singer interested in DIY-ing a CD demo. I have a great space and want to do a live recording of voice and piano. I have had some experience 4-tracking band demos and recording in bigger studios, as well as some live sound reinforcement experience, but this will be my first attempt at recording classical music.

Actually, that's not entirely true... I own a Sony Mini-disc recorder and the included stereo mic and have used it to archive recital performances, but I have never been able to successfuly transfer these masters onto another format (CD or analog tape).... it always comes out reeeeeally quiet.

So my questions are as follows: Can I use my current MD rig (which actually makes a decent recording) and make a transfer onto my CDR? If so, what do I need to make that more succesful? A preamp? if so what kind? something else entirely?

OR, is there other gear that I should look into getting? If this project is successful I know this won't be the last time I do this, so I don't mind making a new equipment investment, especially if there is a mobile recording unit setup that I can get for a resonable price that is relatively self-contained.

SO, once that's done, what's the best technique in terms of mic placement and such? Do I try to capture the sound in the room, or focus more on the micing the instruments (both of them!) up close?

Lastly, will this then need to be mastered and is that something I should shell out the bucks for (both cause I have no idea how to do that and another set of ears never hurts) or can I DIY that as well?

Hope you guys can offer some help and thanks in advance!

-Phil in Wilmington

 

[The Green Hornet]

Oh Solo Mioooooo:}

Well, Phil, I'll try to condense an answer here.

There are several smaller 8 track digital recorders available: Tascam, Fostex, and others. Just look at some major vendors' catalogs. These smaller, more compact boxes or SIAB [studio in a box] all can mix down your work into a stereo track which then can be made into a CD right on the unit or an outboard recorder.

We are talking less than 1k for some of these pretty good units. Moving up a bit, the Yam AW16 seems to be quite popular. I have the Yam 2816 and the AW16 is a less costly spin-off. Korg also has a couple of good SIAB out there. Depends how much you want to spend.

You will need a good mic for vocals and a mic preamp and a compressor.

And, some decent cables as well. So, you might want to investigate and then decide what will work best for what you want to spend.

Personally, I'd wait until after the holidays to buy anything. Prices will drop off after Jan. 1 for many good pieces of gear.

Green Hornet

 

[lykwydchykyn]

Well, I'm not hip on the latest in classical recording, but in my limited experience you don't want to close mic it, especially when it' only a few musicians and you've got a good acoustic space. Someone else can be more detailed, but roughly I'd say you want a decent stereo pair or just a single omni mic placed very well. I won't make a fool of myself by saying much more (college was a long while back).

 

[Ronan]

I have recorded a lot of chamber music. If you have an idea of how much you could spend on gear I could give you tips

 

[collector]

Classical Vocals:

Depending on your situation i.e. time, money and availability you will never get the quality you are looking for on a digital recorder. Digital quality is very, very good and in most cases the best media to record based on many factors and in a metal, pop, rock application just as good. When recording genres such as country, classic etc., the rich fat warm sound of analog is breath taking! My recommendation is to play with Mics (my favorite is the Neumann U87) and a good pre-amp. Processing can be "post" such as compressors, reverb etc.

 

[Ronan]

I agree with the above post about the superiority of analog for classical recording, but the sad thing is that the overwhelming majority of classical music recorded these days is recoreded to digital regardless of available budget ;-(

 

[Treeline]

The difficulty with recording direct to analog is that the appropriate grade of equipment is out of our price range. However, there is a lot you can do with digital media by using mic placement and choice, getting access to a very good preamp, doing the minimal processing that is practicable and mastering through a high end preamp to tape.

That would allow you to use a 24/96 dedicated unit with a rented preamp in the field, keep at it until you have a workable record to take to someone to mix and master using better analog equipment. It's a compromise, but a pretty good one that allows you to get it done in the first place.

 

[phil doucette]

analog or tube preamp

would an acceptable comprimise be to use a tube preamp, or to record to an analog source and then mix down to a digital source?

 

[phil doucette]

MD a no-no

so by everyone's silence on the subjet I guess it's safe to say the mini disc route is not feasable? (feasible? feaseble, feas... oh whatever).

Okay, so I know that you get what you pay for, but I was honestly hoping this project would cost me about 500-600 dollars total, but it sounds like I'm looking at an invesment of over 1k at days end, Which is a lot more than I was expecting. Any suggestions on equipment that will help me keep closer to my original budget but won't sound like poo? (no is an accpetable answer BTW)

 

[manning1]

recording to digital there are 3 major components. the mic, the preamp, and most importantly the sound card convertors.
you can spend a small fortune on convertors alone.
an alternative might be to rent a top quality mic and pre.
whats your budget limit. i'll make suggestions for digital. forget mini disc btw.

 

[phil doucette]

you get what you pay for

well like i said, it looks like i'm gonna be dropping 1k, bt was hoping for half that. any suggestions?

phil in wil

 

[phil doucette]

Yamaha AW16 any comers?

so in taking Hornet's suggestion I read up a bit on the Yam AW16... everyone says it's s*x without the condom, BUT it runs for 1k and I haven't even bought a mic or cables yet... are there any 8 tracks with similar features worth buying? (incidentally, one of the reviews I read was by a guy who records loads of classical chamber music, sang this things praises...). Once again, no is an accpetable answer..

 

[manning1]

couldnt even begin to start if you want high quality classical.
i would suggest using a commercial studio with a high quality signal chain.
maybe you can do a deal. the computer alone would cost 350 bucks. even if you went budget. a emu soundcard is another 100 bucks.
then you need to add in a couple of good mics /pre's. verry difficult.

 

[Rokket]

couldnt even begin to start if you want high quality classical.
i would suggest using a commercial studio with a high quality signal chain.
maybe you can do a deal. the computer alone would cost 350 bucks. even if you went budget. a emu soundcard is another 100 bucks.
then you need to add in a couple of good mics /pre's. verry difficult.

The biggest problem with recording classical music is that it will cost you a lot to be able to capture it correctly. You won't be able to do it justice going cheap. There are options out there for the price you said you wanted, but you will sacrifice quality. I suggest you take the advice of contacting a studio. I've had the luck of being in a studio when they were tracking a soundtrack for a movie. ALL of the gear was analog, and ALL of it was high-end top-dollar stuff. I know you are probably not looking at getting that kind of quality out of your recording, but the bottom line is, you may have to spend a lot of cash. Even going digital, you can get good quality, but it will cost more.....

 

[mshilarious]

so in taking Hornet's suggestion I read up a bit on the Yam AW16... everyone says it's s*x without the condom, BUT it runs for 1k and I haven't even bought a mic or cables yet... are there any 8 tracks with similar features worth buying? (incidentally, one of the reviews I read was by a guy who records loads of classical chamber music, sang this things praises...). Once again, no is an accpetable answer..

It's a nice unit; a few months ago when I was setting up my portable rig I had a look at it, but eventually went with the much pricier Alesis HD24 (thus I also bought a mixer). I put $3K into my portable rig not including mics, cables, stands, which I already had, along with my mixdown studio which has PC DAW editing, monitors, again which I already had.

At some point, you have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish. Do you want a studio, or a demo? 'Cause if you want a demo, hire a pro engineer, that's vastly cheaper and more effective than trying this yourself.

 

[Rokket]

Danny Elfman does a hybred of analog and digital recording. Here is a link to his site. Check out the "Features" tab. He talks about the process he goes through. This may give you some pointers as to how to get this done:

http://elfman.filmmusic.com/

 

[phil doucette]

At some point, you have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish. Do you want a studio, or a demo? 'Cause if you want a demo, hire a pro engineer, that's vastly cheaper and more effective than trying this yourself.

Yeah, I guess that's the first question. I'd ideally like to be able to do this stuff on my own. Like I said, in my earlier days as an aspiring rock start I spent lots of time demoing and co-engineering studio demos. It doesn't need to sound like it's in Albert Hall or a Decca re-release, I just want it to be accurate and clean.

But, this demo is going to be my first introduction to a lot of very important ears, so I need to keep in mind that my first priority is to get a great sounding demo.

So I guess I'll look into what kind of analog equipment my local studios have and how much a mobile session costs, while looking into gear i could buy myself, we'll see which one grabs me first!

I'll keep you guys posyed, but please keep the suggestions coming!

Thanks-

Phil

 

[phil doucette]

the computer alone would cost 350 bucks. even if you went budget. a emu soundcard is another 100 bucks.
then you need to add in a couple of good mics /pre's. verry difficult.

would it make a difference if i told you that I already own an Apple G4? are there platforms I could use with that? (yes I do live under a rock)

 

[Treeline]

If you have a G4 try learning everything you can about MOTU products. Everything, including the software, is designed with the Apple in mind and then modified to harmonize with the Win PC environment; very high quality. This company will have you out far ahead of just about anything else in an affordable / leveragable price point.

Analog really is the way to go for your style; the barriers to entry are high enough so you might not do anything at all. Something is better than nothing here - every single time.

So experiment with a preamp and the minidisk. You will learn the limitations of the medium and may then discard the idea, but in the process you will also learn a great deal about doing this stuff in the first place. It's worth the effort.

Mark of the Unicorn stuff is found here: http://www.motu.com

This is interesting, but around $ 850:

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler

That, a decent mic and your computer with software should do it.

 

[manning1]

i still think phil you should use a commercial studio. the barrier to entry is just too high even if you have a g4.
hitsquad.com has some inexpensive/free software for the g4.
but you will still need good ada convertors and mic and pre.
so for this lot alone your looking at a lot of expense.