Choir wants to do multi track PC recording!

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AaronCissell

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Hello Everybody

First as for someone now posting I have used your site to help for some time now and I want to thank you for the good information.

My situation is:

My church choir would like to do some actual recordings of music written by our director and some choir members. I have become the head of the AV department at church.

I used to do some post production for commercials and some cd's for fair folk way back with beta/vhs and windows 3.0 (LOL). I have had to learn live sound over the past two years as the church installed/got ripped off with a new sound system. I got the job by saying I can hear that there is something wrong. In seeing that several peaces of equipment were missing saying "If you continue the way you are going you are going to blow the speakers." and they did.

I need to find/figure a way to record into Adobe Audition or Sound Forge 10 as these were programs donated to me.

What I have is almost all Harmon products:
SoundCraft GB2 16 (no USB unfortunettaly)
Crown CDI 2000 and 1000 amps (Not needed to record with but listing equipment)
2 DBX 231S EQs
2 DBX 66xl compressors
1 set of stereo paired shure KSM141 condenser instrument Mics
3 sets of stereo paired Samson C02 Super Cardioid
I am working on getting a couple ribbon mics probably MXL R144 or 990

Currently I do not know how to move forward. I want to use my mixer as I am very comfortable using it. Would I need to get a 16 input usb audio interface using the 1/4" Dir Out jacks or get a 4 XLR input and get 4 tracks from my groups and assign a group to each section of the choir grouped from the input fades?

Then finding what device to use that the choir is not going to die over the price =( I hate dealing with getting people to spend money.

Sorry for the long winded version but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Aaron Cissell
 
For the price, I would say just go with something that gives you a few options to try. A Tascam US1800 ($250), would give you 4 line inputs (to try your group out method) but also give you additional 8 XLR inputs, and two more 1/4" channel inputs with preamps. Keep in mind, it is not advised to send line level outputs to a preamp of an interface. Line outs, are best used with actual line level inputs of an interface. There are not many interfaces, that have only line inputs. Not in the inexpensive realm anyway.

You could use your direct outs of the board, to run the 4 line inputs, as well as run 10 separate mics to the unit. Again, not usually recommended to run a 'line level' signal (your direct outs), through another preamp (XLR inputs of an interface). But you could try. Though, I have new interfaces now with -26 dB pads on each channel that allow for the level discrepancy. I suppose you could place inline 'pads' between the direct outs and preamps of an interface. But again, that is not the ideal.

Hope any of this helps. Sure someone else will come along with more advice shortly. Weekends tend to be a bit slow around here. Don't go buy anything for a few days, till you hear more input from here.

:)
 
Assuming that you have a "proper" desktop computer the cheapest option would be an M-Audio 1010lt PCI soundcard.

Only 8 audio tracks for sure but then I think 16 is an overkill for a choir! You mention ribbons? Lovely! Set up high as a crossed stereo pair for a start and then tastefully fill in with spots as needed.

You have the mic pres already but I cannot see how many channels are mono with direct outs?

If 16 tracks are really needed then the A&H ICE16 is about the best value but still around the $1000 mark.

Dave.
 
For a choir, by CHOICE I wouldn't use too many tracks. Assuming you have a place with decent acoustics to record, I'd use an X-Y or ORTF format for the main mics and, depending on the music you're doing, maybe a few soloist mics in their own tracks.
 
Thanks for the replies so far.

Jimmys69:

Thanks for the information. I had not thought of the line level issue and do not know exactly what that would do, act or dammage and I will have to look into the situation.

I did look at the Tascam US 1800 from reading the newbies intro to multitrack and my only issue with it is that it is Tascam. I have had a bad run with Tascam and having to warranty replace a cdrw 901sl 3 times in one year and finally ended up with the non XLR replacement cdrw 900sl that has lasted a year so far but is starting to have CD loading issues and I am looking into having to replace it. These units were only used one day per week.

Force of Nature:

Unfortunately I will be using my laptop for the first recordings. I currently use the laptop for video recording from our video switch and to broadcast to the baby room and to discussion groups rooms with no added noise running from the battery and a very minor background hiss with charger pluged in. I have talked to the church about this and I am getting funding to build a computer for this job as I am tired of having to be at church every single weekend or leaving my laptop there if I can not make it. I should be able to add audio recording to the build as soon as I am told how much money I will have for the build.

The Soundcraft GB2 has 14 direct outs. I did not think of that last night when I did the original post and I only currently use 4 to 8 inputs choir/choir and instrument.

Bobbsy:

I currently use ORTF mic setup pattern due to the distance the mics have to be during a service. I have no experience currently setting up to just record.

Our church is over 100 years old and is an extremely active environment. The choir director has picked out a couple areas like the basement to try to record in as she likes the acoustics.

Thanks for the info so far it really helps. Thanks
 
GB2R 12.2 or GB2R 16?

Probably recording 16 tracks wouldn't be necessary or very useful. Choir recording generally follows the lines of classical music recording, with mostly distant mic arrays. That usually means a stereo array in the center and sometimes additional mics to cover soloists or sections the main array doesn't get well. That's pretty different from what most home recordists are doing. I would look for help from people with classical music expertise as the microphones and techniques are pretty specific to that specialty.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
GB2R 12.2 or GB2R 16?

Probably recording 16 tracks wouldn't be necessary or very useful. Choir recording generally follows the lines of classical music recording, with mostly distant mic arrays. That usually means a stereo array in the center and sometimes additional mics to cover soloists or sections the main array doesn't get well. That's pretty different from what most home recordists are doing. I would look for help from people with classical music expertise as the microphones and techniques are pretty specific to that specialty.
Click to expand...

Now why didn't I think of that!" Get over to Forum - FORUM INDEX where there are a few ex BBC guys who have probably done many a Songs of Praise.

Dave.
 
A couple of things:

TASCAM 1800 - I use one every Sunday, it's been working fine for a year now.

Going to the basement - um, no. One of the best assets you have is the natural reverb of an old church. You can't BUY that sound at any price, and you will most likely miss it if you record in a little room. Mic up that ambience carefully, record it to a separate set of tracks for mixdown, and it will add a lot of presence and "glue" to your recording.

Question: what is the instrumentation other than choir?

Our choir/band has done a similar project, it went very well, we recorded to hard drive on a Mac via a previous multitrack interface. Most tracks were live, some were overdubbed later like a sax soloist and some solo vocal "fixes."

The one thing I can't stress enough - prepare with rehearsals before you record and be picky about your takes. Your choir director will need to listen VERY closely for pitch, etc., and be ready to re-take as necessary. Unless your choir are real pro's?
 
Sorry about the delay in getting back to everybody.

bouldersoundguy:

We have a GB2 16 no R this is a desk top/gig model as we have the possible need to move it to the other sanctuary areas. that has input 16 fades an additional 2 stero in that can be used as mic in but we use them as CD and Ipod in, 4 group fades set for stereo pair. I was wrong on my prior post as it does have 16 Direct Outs not 14 for some reason I was thinking that it only had a total of 16 fades and that 2 were the stereo in. The stereo ins do not have direct outs.

I may be wrong in the mic setup I am thinking of but using the basic rules of setup I was told and have read I have 3 rows in the choir at 20 foot wide with about 45 people depending on how many members decide to sign up if I get the full crew I could have 63 people. The Cardioids will be set 2 foot back from the front row and 11 foot high which will put them about 2 to 3 foot above the head height of the top row. I will work as best as I can with the 60 degree cone pattern of the mics and would need roughly 3 to 4 mics to get just the choir as a whole. I will need a minimum of 2 solo mics just for the choir. This does not include any instruments that have not been decided.

TimOBrien and ecc83:

Your absolutely correct. They think they do or more then likely as I have given them some cd's with there singing taken from services they have gotten an itch to "do something more professional." But the way I look at it the choir is 85% of the driving force behind how money is spent at the church and I need funding to continue to repair/replace what these (add what ever series of curse words you like here) installers did. As I said earlier I hate getting people to spend money so if I can win them over then they will do that for me. =)

ecc83:

I am talking a couple people into donating some particular mics to the church as they want to do solo bits and I have nothing to work with for them as the church was told by the installers that there was no need for any other type of mic. I really hate these guys and there are several churches in the area that are looking for them to try to get some of their money back due to how much they had to redo correctly. I have worked with recordings that ribbon mics were used for acapella groups before and have preferred the sound over cardioid.

tubegeek:

Our choir is one of the best in the state and currently are in Transylvania singing in a church out there by request. They consider themselves to be professionals and will do nothing without several rehearsals. I use there rehearsals to train myself. I have tones of book knowledge but way too little experience and nobody to sit with me to teach me.

Normal instruments used on a service are:

Organ this is a true pipe organ
Grand Piano
6 person hand drum group
Bass, Cello, Violin, Flute

Several dozen PDQ Bach "Instruments"

What is decided for the recording I do not know yet.

When I say basement, this is the original basement that was used as a storm sanctuary. As to the current news here in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma we have some major tornadoes and this is where the local people went to shelter and have a service during the storm. It is directly underneath and almost the same size as the sanctuary. Our church is next to a hospital and in the path to the ambulance emergency entrance. Massively annoying but well needed. I have talked to our choir director and am still trying to convince her that it would just be a new take if the traffic noise gets too high.

I am warming up to the Tascam us 1800. I am still leery about there QC, but seems like the way to go. Could anyone expand on jimmys69 line level issue I am having a hard time finding info on this issue. Fourm links are great if it has been discussed before.
This is by far the best place so far for info. I have read a lot of posts where someone asks to have the info dumbed down and it gets done without much razzing and well explained to begin with.

Thanks
 
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