Chinese Microphone Company - 797 Audio

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Recording Engineer

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A copy of this is in the Hot Deals Forum:

OK guys, there's some highly controvercial stuff going on in the rec.audio.pro newsgroup right now regarding a company in Beijing, China called 797 Audio. The site is: www.797audio.com

Here are some of the quotes from the group:


"Some further info on the company- looks legit. check out this site: http://www.globalsources.com/MAGAZINE/EC/9911/MPHONE01.HTM
according to this, Beijing 797 Audio sells in the UK!"


They have no US Distributor at this time, so they must be ordered direct from the company.

Here's n e-mail response from the comany to one of the group members:


"Dear sir.
thanks for you interesting in our products. Here is the price of some of our microphones.(FOB Beijing, USD).

CR998 $300.00 include all standard accessories .
CR3000 $80.00 include all standard accessories .
CR414 $130.00 include all standard accessories .
CR100 $220.00 include all standard accessories .
CR616 $100.00 Include shock mount .
CR1-78 $120.00 include windscreen .
CR722 $100.00 include windscreen and LJ-12A .
CR628 $80.00 include LJ-12A .
CR1-4 $80.00 include LJ-12.
CR523 $ 80.00 include LJ-12B .
Aluminum carrying case: 30.00USD
If the quantity you need is large, the price will be lower.

CD-58 $ 15.00 Min.Quantity. 100 pcs
CD-14L $ 10.00 Min.Q. 100 pcs
CD-22L $ 6.00 Min.Q. 100 pcs.
CD-24L $ 6.00 Min.Q. 100 pcs
CDK404 $ 7.00 Min.Q. 100 pcs.


you can tell me which and how many you need.
I will tell our export dep. to contact to you for the payment.
If you have any question, please ask me without hesitation.

maybe you can take a look at our OEM products:
ADK(www.adk.cc):A51TT,A51TC.
Marshall(www.mars-cam.com):MXL2003, MXL600, V77.
PMI(www.pmiaudio.com): BPM microphones:CR-10, CR95, TB-95etc.
RODE(www.event1.com):NT2.

some of these microphones are our OEM microphones.

Best Regards
Ma Jiulong/chief engineer of 797 audio. <A HREF="http://www.797audio.com"" TARGET=_blank>http://www.797audio.com"</A>


Of course, they don't specificly say which are their OEM microphones.


<<"Customs would be so-oooo interested if <<these thangs ever hit our shores, no? <<Highly illegal is my guess, but it might be <<worth the trip over there to have a look."


"Not really. As long as it says "Made in China" on it, they really don't care. I rather doubt that anyone could get Customs to enforce a trademark dispute like they used to for the American importers of Neumann and Nikon."

<<"The "history section" of their web site <<indicates that the company was set up in <<1956 by the Germans- seriously doubt the <<West variety. If so, could the East German <<group of Neumann have granted licenses to <<build these lil puppies???? Maybe not as <<illegal as they look after all. But then <<again there are what look to be the AKG <<knock-offs. Nothing mentioned about Vienna <<in their "History" :)"


"Right. They had some training from what is now Microtech Gefell, courtesy of the USSR's effort to get into and control all the relevant technologies in China, but after 1960-61 when all this stopped, they went on to develop their own designs. I have a pair of their first effort, the CR-1-1, (CR are the initials for the pinyin phoneticization of the characters for condenser microphone) which are omni-cardioid switchable, dual-diaphragm mics somewhat like a cross between an 87 and a KM56. The capsule is unlike any other design I've seen. Since the 1980's though they have been pressured by a lot of western marketeers to make Neumann knockoffs, and, well, to be rich is glorious.

797 is the 797 Factory of the Ministry of Electronics Industry, and is located on the outskirts of Beijing. I first visited there in 1985, it's an interesting place. They also make loudspeakers (columns and big reflex bins) including Altec A7 copies, all the way down to clock radio speakers. Some of the Chinese mics sold abroad come from there, but you have to make the deal with them directly. The majority of the 87-ish clones come from a factory in Shanghai due to the fact that there's an alumnus of the Shanghai factory living in L. A. who actively promotes sales of their mics. --

David Josephson / Josephson Engineering / San Jose CA /
david@josephson.com"


Check-out the Josephson Engineering site at: www.josephson.com


>>"Robin,have you used one of these yet? Possible even a/bd it to a Nuemann?
>>Thanks,
>>Mark"


"Mark, you're missing the point. So what if it doesn't sound like a multi-pattern Neumann? Who cares? You put up this big ass mic, with multi-patterns for 3 bills and let people sing into it. It probably sounds ok, it has a tube in it, it's big, it's multi-pattern, and it's only $300. Singers will get off on it, and you'll eventually find a pattern that works for the singer. Think of it as nine more crayons for your crayola box. It may look like an old Neumann long body, but it ain't. Very few mics are.

Harvey Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio <A HREF="http://www.ITRstudio.com/"" TARGET=_blank>http://www.ITRstudio.com/"</A>


Anyway, a group of us from the newsgroup are trying to get enough people together to purchase CR998s (tube) for $300US + $50US each for shipping. Because at that price, a min. of 10 must be purchased. Although, I heard a rumor that they're backordered by about 7 months. That's fine with me though, I'll still be around.

I figure it's cheap enough that if I don't like it, I can probably easily sell it for at least what I paid for it.

So if anyone's interested, contact Robin by e-mail at:
julirob@jps.net
 
I saw this other post and thought it was interesting.


"I discovered (see response to earlier thread on these mics) that the Beijing 797 mics are being imported at the moment under the name Studio Projects. By coincidence, the distributor, PMI Audio, (www.pmiaudio.com) has just begun offering these mics in the last couple of days [they showed them at NAMM last week]. PMI distributes these now instead of BPM. There is a little blurb about Beijing 797 on the PMI web site. Now that you know the Beijing price, you can call up Alan or Jaymi and negotiate for a good
price. They were thinking of charging $799-$1099 list before NAMM. We'll see what the real price ends up being.

Luke"
 
These are some sweet deals! I checked out the specs on all of them and was incredibly impressed. The specs on the CR414 are almost as good (and better at some points) as a real C414. Same with the C3000. So are those really the prices? I mean c'mon, $130 for a 414?! $300 for a Neumann-esque tube mic?! And that includes the case and shockmount!

Let us know if you or anyone on the newsgroup actually orders one of these. I think that for those prices, if I hear just one success story, I'll buy one, too (I've already got the site bookmarked!). Hell, I may even get one if I don't hear any success stories, 'cause $130 for a C414-clone is nothin'!

Ryan
 
Yeah, a group of us are going in on the CR998s like I said above. But I hear they're backordered several months on these things. I'll let you know more of what I hear from various people in the newsgroup though.
 
Most of use on the newsgroup don't think the're going to sound even close to what the originals sound like. And that's not really a bad thing. New and different mics in familar housings.
 
Yeah, like I said, the specs are great, so I figure they'll at least sound decent. But the cool part about them is that they look like mics that cost many times more, which is great for impressing potential clients and naive friends.

So are those prices you listed (like $130 for the CR414) for single units, or are those bulk prices?

Ryan
 
I think a min. of 10 at those prices. I also heard the CR998 goes for $360 + $50 shiping & insurance each if you order a min. of 5; which is still not bad.

At least 10 of us from the r.a.p. newsgroup are interested in buy at least 10 CR998s as a group, by I don't think anyone has organized a group yet. I've e-mailed Robin (the one who brough up the idea; and I think lives in my town about 10 min. away on the streets, what do you know) and he hasn't got back to me. Harvey Gerst the "pope" of the r.a.p. newsgroup wants to buy two , so we'll actually do it as soon as we're organized a little better.
 
About the CR998, from their site.
Isn't 76dB S/N kind've shabby, or is this some other system that I don't understand?
And what's up with that specialized power supply?

TYPE: condenser pressure gradient microphone with 1 inch dual diaphragm and valve pre-amplifier Polar pattern:
Omnidirectional, cardioid, figure 8, and 6 intermediate stages, all selectable on AC powering unit.

Sensitivity: 14mV/Pa¡Ö-37dBV (0dB=1v/Pa)
Frequency range: 20 to 20000Hz
Impedance: <250 ohms

Recommended load impedance: 1000 ohms
MAX. SPL for 1% THD @1000Hz: 125 dB

Equivalent noise level to:
DIN 45405(CCIR 468-2):28dB
IEC 268-4(A weighted): 18dB-A
S/N ratio re 1Pa : 76dB

Power requirement: dedicated"N95"powering unit

Environmental Temperature:
-10 deg. C. - 60¡ãC
REL. humidity: 90%(20 deg.C.), 85%(60 deg.C.)

Connector: 7-pin XLR

Size: dia.: 53mm(2.1in), length: 225mm(8.9 in)
Net weight: 750g (26.5 oz)
 
c7sus:
If you don't want to support this company because of ethical reasons, then I guess you'd not want to support these companies such as Manely, Rode, BPM, Joe Meek, PMI, ADK, etc.

drstawl:
No, that's not a bad S/N Ratio. Also, no the power supply unit is nothing odd or new. Lots of mics from lots of different compamies have this same type of power supply; Neumann included.
 
I did some research, and the S/N ratio is comparable to other large diaphragm condensers. For example, the CAD E-series are all around 78 dB, and the Shure KSM32 is 81 dB. So, it's a touch noisy, but I'm sure that's 'cause of the tube and the related power supply.
 
As soon as someone gets one of these mics they have to post results and a comparison strait away, it's amazing. Also isn't there like a copy write or a patent against them doing this.
 
I posted this in the r.a.p. newsgroup and got this response:


Obviously, these mics are causing great contrevercy. I have no reason to automaticly discredit the company on our perception of their site. Infact, most info that we all have seen, brought to us by recognized
members, makes quite a few of us lean toward them being legit, legal, and morally OK (in a lot of people's minds). Are you telling me you know there's a slavery issue going on here? If so, please let us all


"The so-called anti-communist lobby would have you believe that any labor in China is slave labor. As with most myths there is a grain of truth to it; China has no prohibition on prison labor and that is used to make a lot of things. But 797 is still a state-owned factory (that's why the number for a name) of the Electronics Ministry, which is fairly high up in prestige among Chinese government entities. The people who work there generally consider themselves very, very priveleged to have a job (a) with the Ministry and (b) in the capital
city.

--
David Josephson / Josephson Engineering / San Jose CA /
david@josephson.com"
 
Check this out guys:


"Check this out........

The e-mail I got this morining from Ma at 797 stated the following:

If you can buy more than 50 pcs, the price will be 300-300*40%=180.00USD/pc.

Thas's right, if we can pool together and buy 50 pieces of there tube mic, the price goes down to $180.00 each + shipping. He also offered similar discounts on the other mics as well.

So, who's game?

George
ZSonusRex@Zaol.comZ
"Tone is the only consideration"
Remove "Z" anti-spam to reply."
 
c7sus - You have death penalty in your country as well and I dare to hazard a guess that all "Made in USA" products are not produced under conditions that would make the union cry of joy. Think about it. Also, I'm pretty sure that tech products are produced under far better conditions than most other things you buy from Asia. I'm sure that they for example don't have children soldering the circuit boards etc. while those really cheap jeans at the outlet are sewn buy some seven-year old kid.

Anyway, for me who's prepared to order from a tech company in China, here's what I found out;

The prices I got from them are about 20% higher than the original list but they were for single units. However, these prices only goes for distributors/dealers so there's the catch. I would gladly buy larger quantities and sell to you guys but I live in Sweden so there would be lots of extra shipping costs, huge tax additions etc., so the final price would be at least double. No use, huh?

If there's someone in the US who's interested in becoming a low-profit dealer, I'm sure you'll have tons of customers from day one.

Just remember one thing before you order tons of these mics. Check out what currency the power supply runs on. It might be troublesome if it's not the same frequency. The voltage is easy and cheap to transform but if you have to transform the frequency, it's more expensive.

Good luck

/Ola
 
Recording Engineer:

Well, Ola brings up a good point regarding the power supply issue, but if that pans out okay, you can tentatively sign me up for 5 of the 998's, although to be honest, I'd much rather split an order of 10 CR414s with someone, mainly because of the 7 month backorder issue on the 998s (although the cheaper price on the 414s is nice, too). Let me know what you think about this.

Keep us posted; I think you've hit on something really cool here.

Ryan

P.S. My two cents on the China issue: the best way to free China from Communism is to keep giving them little tastes of Capitalism. Once you go laissez-faire, you'll never go back (or something)! ;)
 
I'll contact them today about the power supply issue and let you know as soon as I do. The backorder time I heard was as follows;

the CR998, CR100 will be available in 20 days.
the CR3000, CR414 will be available in 60 days.
the CR1-4, CR523 will be be available in 15 days.
the dynamic mics will be avaiable in half a year.
we have stock of CR616 now.
[End quote]

So it doesn't really seem to be a problem.

Good luck

/Ola

Regarding the "China issue" - I think it's better to deal with the companies who want to stay in touch with the outside world than to let the ones who want to close the bordes win by boycotting the entire country. Communists or not.
Click to expand...
 
Here's a quote from Scott Dorsey of the r.a.p. newsgroup:


"Well, the thing is that mikes from the Beijing and Shanghai factories have been sold here for quite a few years, and a lot of other manufacturers are using capsules or capsule parts from there. So it's hard not to support them in some way if you make that decision. And yes, their prices are somewhat flexible, and they get more flexible when you are buying huge quantities or dealing through a middleman with connections. That's the way all markets are.
--scott"


I completely agree. Everyone gets to where they are at the expense of others; in every business and to various degrees. You just have to set the standard for yourself of what you consider tolerable.

Divid Josephson himself has visited the 797 Audio factory multiple times in the mid-80s. Look above a few posts to what he says about the treatment of 797 Audio's employees.
 
Here are some more:


"Many people do not like supporting the Chinese government because they do some pretty nasty things like using slave labour in factories, locking political prisoners in jail, and gunning down student protestors."

--Soctt Dorsey


"The US has factories in prisons, we definitely have some political prisoners
(especially if you count tax protesters), and remember Kent State?"

--Dave Martin


"Can you say "Manuel Noriega?" Actually, he petitioned and won the right to NOT go to the political prison in Marion, IL, lucky bastard."

--Luis Cypher
 
Before everybody goes out and orders in bulk doesn't someone want to know if there cheap rip offs or not, does anyone own one yet. They could just look similar and sound like crap.
 
I already knew from the first time I posted anything regarding these mics here. They're ALL 797 Audio's own designs internally "in familiar housings". Just about everyone on the r.a.p newsgroup agree at least to that.

How they're going to sound is questionable though. Most people on the newsgroup agree they will sound just as good as some known mics such as Rode, MXL, ADK, etc. But there is a question on how long they'll last. Some think 6 months, some say a few years. Yes, it's a risk. And I hope all who are considering these things really understand the risk. For me, it's really curiosity and trying them out for myself over getting some really nice mic I can depend on for cheap. Long lastly dependency is not cheap. Hence Neumann's prices. Not to mention they sound damn good too.

Just so all you know, the ADK and MXL mics are exactly the same mic in different housings. How's that for digging-up shit I wasn't even looking for? I don't care a single bit about that though. It's not like I'm gonna rip on the companies. Maybe it will teach us all to listen regardless of the price. sonusman lovers some of the Behringer products. Who woulda thunk?
 
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