Chinese Folk Music

[suntzu1982]

Okay, so here's the deal guys. I don't know if anyone has any experience recording chinese instruments, but I have the opportunity of recording my grandfather, a self-taught musician, this weekend or next (depending on the energy he has.) And because the session can't be as intense, it's not easy for me to test other mic positioning.

So, I'm wondering how you would approach recording these instruments. They will be recorded in a fairly large room, with a ceiling that starts at ten feet, but slants upwards to 20 feet.

To get an idea here are the pictures of the instruments I will be recording, see attached. ('erhu' is #2)

They are all stringed instruments. I was thinking for #1, using two SDCs on both sides (where the tuning tool is, and opposite of that) and maybe a centered dynamic. But I thought maybe using two SDCs in X-Y, and a dynamic in the middle. (By the way, if suggesting X-Y, do I cross the cord end or the grill end).

For #2, I was thinking testing both my dynamic and SDC on the bottom part of the instrument (where I'm assuming the sound resonates from.)

I don't know. I was playing with the idea of a room mic, but with #1, I wanted to on it to capture the sounds, and didn't think a dynamic would work well as a room mic. I also have an LDC...but didn't think it optimal for it.

Thanks in advanced. I'm really excited to do this, since it'll allow me to capture my greatest musical influence.

 

[mshilarious]

They are all stringed instruments. I was thinking for #1, using two SDCs on both sides (where the tuning tool is, and opposite of that) and maybe a centered dynamic. But I thought maybe using two SDCs in X-Y, and a dynamic in the middle. (By the way, if suggesting X-Y, do I cross the cord end or the grill end).

Crossing the grille end is XY, crossing the cable end would be ORTF, roughly speaking. I would use ORTF about three feet from the instrument, above and a little behind. Pretty much like drum overheads. It won't kill anyone to put a dynamic underneath, but be prepared to toss that track out.

For #2, I was thinking testing both my dynamic and SDC on the bottom part of the instrument (where I'm assuming the sound resonates from.)

Hmm. I have a recording of Chinese folk instrument, but I've never met that one in person. I have a similar Ethiopian instrument, but it's a scale model . . . so . . . I would treat it like a quieter version of a violin, and aim an XY pair at the soundboard (it is made from skin, yes?)

I don't know. I was playing with the idea of a room mic, but with #1, I wanted to on it to capture the sounds, and didn't think a dynamic would work well as a room mic. I also have an LDC...but didn't think it optimal for it.

Go ahead and throw up the LDC as a room mic. Also, put your g-pa in the "shallow" end of the room, facing out into the "deep" end. Stick your LDC up there a little bit, and see what you get.

 

[nessbass]

If the room sounds good, try to capture more of the room sound. For #1, I'd go with an XY (grill ends crossed) 5 or 6 feet above the instrument. Similarly, for #2, an XY a few feet away and quite a bit above ground, maybe 5-6 feet as well, facing the instrument. An alternative would be to use the LDC as a rather close mic (but not too close either) and the SDCs in an AB stretched pair further away in the room. If you want to use the LDC for #1 as well, I'd try to mic your grandpa's ear (not really, but you know what I mean... ) in addition to the overhead pair.

 

[suntzu1982]

Now, ORTF and XY...I'm guessing both are set-ups to prevent phase problems, but why one over the other? ORTF more airy sound?

aim an XY pair at the soundboard (it is made from skin, yes?)

Yeup. it is made from skin. Looks like snake skin...it's those farmer's instruments. Amazing that two strings could play such complicated melodies. Funny thing is, after learning theory, I realized it wasn't blues that was the base of my music love, it was the chinese penatonic scales that gave me a love for the blues.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I don't know how much gear you have, but I'd try to throw up as many mics and a many simultaneous tracks as you can, using several strategies at once (e.g. a close coincident pair - X/Y or ORTF - plus a distant stereo pair or overheads, plus a room mic or two.) Save gramps the effort and do the work of sorting out the best tracks in mixing.

However you wind up doing it, I'd love to hear the results if you plan on posting them on the net anywhere. Not so much as a critiqe of the engineering as a real desire to hear your granddad's music.

G.

 

[suntzu1982]

I will...for both critique and for your listening enjoyment. I have four mics. A shure 57, two SDCs and one LDC. So, I'll try to set them all up. Maybe X-Y one song and ORTF the next. I'll use the LDC as a room mic and in my g-pa's ear. I'll try the dynamic both in the middle of the SDCs and underneath. We'll see the result. Thanks all.

 

[mshilarious]

Now, ORTF and XY...I'm guessing both are set-ups to prevent phase problems, but why one over the other? ORTF more airy sound?

XY is intended to prevent phase problems, but ORTF is more intended to exploit phase differences. As such, XY has mono compatibility, whereas ORTF less so. The idea behind ORTF is that our ears use the phase difference to help discern directionality, so that phase difference is a good thing in creating a stereo image, especially as the source gets wider.