Chinese cheap or counterfeit products.

rob aylestone

Well-known member
Sorry Ed - you've totally lost me. EU rules never bothered us very much - hence why the decision to leave was so close, and folk like me, who actually voted to leave, now regret it. Since we left the EU, it's become very difficult to do common things - like post something, but now Northern Ireland have changed party, NI could possibly decide to leave the UK. In fairness, they are almost separate anyway - they have different laws in many areas to Great Britain so leaving would be technically possible, but will be fought seriously by the Protestants in the main. The EU was weak, inefficient, expensive and often a pain - but I think we're better out of it for some things, yet others maybe not?
 

Ed Fones

Active member
Well Rob I could tell you loads about North and South. Also about the deliberate games that are being played on Brits because of your weak and dishonest Gov. 18 months and still pretending to talk about deals and they think people actually believe that shite.

Basically the UK hasnt really left and is being deliberately held there because they havent withdrawn from certain things. Who is to blame for that? In fact I would say it is being deliberately weakened by some. The EU would crap themselves if the shackles were chopped from the UK. I wonder why they arent? Possibly to change your minds because the elite had it too good and want it back? So they want you to talk as you do now about regret and rejoin.

Regards EU rules you were and still are totally constrained by them in every walk of life. Most not good either and set up to benefit probably not you.

All a different story but there you go.
 
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spantini

COO of me, inc.
... To Spantini - do you want to hear the Hofner violin bass? I've actually used it on a few recordings, and really like it...
Thank you, Rob. I'd like that.

This guy's made a nice comparison between the Authentic and Chinese Ignition Höfners :


Gretsch's G2220 Electromatic Junior Jet Bass II Short-Scale is manufactured in one of several Asian countries - possibly China. IMO, this is a fine instrument, though many will say otherwise, usually focusing in on the cheap tuning heads. Having played several not too long ago, they all just fit me to a tee - maybe because I'm still partial to my old 500/1 Höfner with it's thin neck and short scale. The Gretsch can have a rich, full, woody sound similar to the Hofner with it's neck pickup solo'd (via solo switch). As much as I loved my Hofner, the Gretsch has much better neck playability, IMO.

 
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We have always had a phrase here - "BUY BRITISH" - but it's almost impossible. We're very good at making cutting edge, or engineering heavy expensive kit, but we cannot do cheap. I sent out a small item today to a customer - the item was £5.99.l Postage was £5.05! I thought I had better order some more, from the supplier in China. The price I got was £3.65, converted from USD to UKP, and this includes postage from China to the UK. Postage abroad is subsidised by the Chinese Government. I can buy this product made in the UK. It is £57.46! Until this kind of thing is fixed, both the US and the UK are virtually forced to import goods.
Well I can only speak for Americans but we can't even afford to live here anymore anyways so we might as well just work for peanuts, make everything cheaper and let the publicly traded companies and their stakeholders richer. Maybe we can sleep in the parking lot or something and get scripts for the company store for food or whatever. I'm just brainstorming here. Have there been any studies actually confirming that it's harmful for children to work? And before you think I'm being heartless I'm not talking about propping babies up and having them make things. I'm just saying that a healthy child is a physically fit child and there's nothing like hard labor to build strong muscles.
 
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Well I can only speak for Americans but we can't even afford to live here anymore anyways so we might as well just work for peanuts, make everything cheaper and let the publicly traded companies and their stakeholders richer. Maybe we can sleep in the parking lot or something and get scripts for the company store for food or whatever. I'm just brainstorming here. Have there been any studies actually confirming that it's harmful children to work? And before you think I'm being heartless I'm not talking about propping babies up and having them make things. I'm just saying that a healthy child is a physically fit child and there's nothing like hard labor to build strong muscles.
The only thing I can see that is genuinely off the table is capping the amount of profits a company or human can make. But if I opened an online boo...., I mean broom retailer and I can build that up over the years to sell Chinese shit and bring it to the average lazy Americans doorstep than I should not be limited in the amount of super yachts I can posses or how many bridges I need to tear down to get it out of the port I bought to build them. And I DEFINTELY shouldn't allow my servants the ability to collectively bargain with me for fair wages. Is this America or are you all COMMUNISTS!
 

Sheff37

Member
I am 66 years old, been playing pro for over 50 years. Owned everything. And everything l ever owned of value was stolen. Today l would NEVER buy a Gibson or Fender, new or used. When we left LA a year ago, the counterfeits l saw and played were Outstanding. I would buy one in a heartbeat if l wanted a guitar that said Gibson on it.

But it's Over and this is a sign of just how over it is. There are no gigs anymore for the likes of my kind, much less fame or fortune. So why would the worms that will soon be digging around in my skull give a damn what l played at the end of the day. They won't.
 
I am 66 years old, been playing pro for over 50 years. Owned everything. And everything l ever owned of value was stolen. Today l would NEVER buy a Gibson or Fender, new or used. When we left LA a year ago, the counterfeits l saw and played were Outstanding. I would buy one in a heartbeat if l wanted a guitar that said Gibson on it.
Yep. Why pay an American a living wage when we can have Chinese indentured servants building shit that's pretty close. Right? Then we can work less which will free up time to yell at immigrants for stealing our jobs. It's a win/win.
 

Sheff37

Member
Yep. Why pay an American a living wage when we can have Chinese indentured servants building shit that's pretty close. Right? Then we can work less which will free up time to yell at immigrants for stealing our jobs. It's a win/win.
Society will dictate who wins that war, and l am not part of society, just a reflection of what it was. But why build high quality swords when there are no battles to fight? The guitar will Not save the US economy. I have always chose Quality of Life over capitalism.

When l started playing live in 1970 there was no good gear. You got the job done with the tools you could get your hands on, whatever they were. And nobody judged you by the gear you had, only by how well you can play.

And that is the Chibson philosophy. People can't see through the illusion so they don't need the real thing. And it isn't a company killer because most Fenders and Gibsons don't say Made in USA anymore.

The problem l have is that if you are buying a new Gibson or Fender from an individual, you can no longer tell if it's real or not unless they say so. I saw a room full of fake Gibsons from China back before we left LA, and they were so good they could fool even me. The price for each was $250. But l was just curious. I don't need a name brand guitar to feed my ego, l would rather play a $20 used First Act and listen back to my recordings of me and it.

What most people don't understand is that 90% of your tone is in your neck, which is another way of saying your fingers. The other 10% is just that. When you make your amp 50% of your tone you are going the other direction. So there are a lot of things going on, pickups wood etc, but those never account for more than 10%. A Chibson is just a First Act with the word Gibson stamped on it. If the neck is solid, you will get 90% of your tone right there. The remaining 10% is just to bring that 90% to the surface and keep it there.

But the Gibson / Chibson war is one of pure economics, and in this world the thieves seem to be winning.
 
Society will dictate who wins that war, and l am not part of society, just a reflection of what it was. But why build high quality swords when there are no battles to fight? The guitar will Not save the US economy. I have always chose Quality of Life over capitalism.

When l started playing live in 1970 there was no good gear. You got the job done with the tools you could get your hands on, whatever they were. And nobody judged you by the gear you had, only by how well you can play.

And that is the Chibson philosophy. People can't see through the illusion so they don't need the real thing. And it isn't a company killer because most Fenders and Gibsons don't say Made in USA anymore.

The problem l have is that if you are buying a new Gibson or Fender from an individual, you can no longer tell if it's real or not unless they say so. I saw a room full of fake Gibsons from China back before we left LA, and they were so good they could fool even me. The price for each was $250. But l was just curious. I don't need a name brand guitar to feed my ego, l would rather play a $20 used First Act and listen back to my recordings of me and it.

What most people don't understand is that 90% of your tone is in your neck, which is another way of saying your fingers. The other 10% is just that. When you make your amp 50% of your tone you are going the other direction. So there are a lot of things going on, pickups wood etc, but those never account for more than 10%. A Chibson is just a First Act with the word Gibson stamped on it. If the neck is solid, you will get 90% of your tone right there. The remaining 10% is just to bring that 90% to the surface and keep it there.

But the Gibson / Chibson war is one of pure economics, and in this world the thieves seem to be winning.
You can't tell a genuine Gibson over a copy? Is that what I'm reading? Or you don't care who makes it as long as one of them is cheaper? I think it's both but I want to make sure.
 
Society will dictate who wins that war, and l am not part of society, just a reflection of what it was.
That's ridiculous but I'm sure it makes you feel better having said it. I'm guessing that you actually believe it to so that probably helps as well.
 

Sheff37

Member
That's ridiculous but I'm sure it makes you feel better having said it. I'm guessing that you actually believe it to so that probably helps as well.
You are entitled to your opinion. That is my opinion. I won't buy a Gibson or a Chibson because my stage days and recording days are over. I am NOT a part of that society, but it appears you are, so you and the others in that society, including law, will decide the fate of the 21st Century Chibson. If the majority of modern society accepts the Chibson it will prevail. But l will not fight for or against either side.
 

Gtoboy

Well-known member
Don't know exactly where this went off the rails, but when someone says they will choose "quality of life" over capitalism I worry that they are either too self absorbed to realize that "bread and circuses"( quality of life) has to be paid for by someone, or they are so entitled that they think their quality of life is far and away more important than some poor persons quality of life in a less developed country building the stuff for like minded entitled consumers. Maybe I can't do anything directly about the situation but I can vote against not paying a living wage with my wallet. My opinion anyway.
 

Sheff37

Member
Quality of Life is based on the "Constitution" of the Individual and his ability to make any situation imaginable a "Quality" moment. Monty Python did a great job of making humor of it at the end of the film Life of Brian. It's really something you only figure out when your old. My dear friend Keith Emerson figured it out, and then he put a gun to his head. I have been all over the world, and the poor destitute people we feel sorry for, are the ones that feel sorry for us. I think India was the most amazing. When your old you can do something you can't do when your young. That is why Mance Lipscomb always said "I say me for a parable". Eventually everyone will get there, but when your young you can't do it. I can say well nobody l ever voted for won. But that doesn't mean voting doesn't work. In my parable it means l am so Out There nobody l would vote for would ever win. So it doesn't matter if "My Parable" lives in a Democratic country or not. But nobody pays my way. If you see me digging thru a dumpster, l am taking care of myself. You will Never see me in a welfare line, that is my parable.
 

WWLaidback

Well-known member
In 2015 a friend of mine was considering purchasing a Chibson guitar. He wanted my advjce.
I gave him a half dozen reasons to not buy that guitar.
He dismissed my advice by saying "Opinions are like assholes and you probably think that Donald Trump is a genius".
This thread reminded me of the time that I lost a good friend.


My chibson Les Paul is going to the garbage dump. The warped neck isn't worth the trouble. This guitar is unsuitable even for a beginner.
 

Sheff37

Member
You can't tell a genuine Gibson over a copy? Is that what I'm reading? Or you don't care who makes it as long as one of them is cheaper? I think it's both but I want to make sure.
The topic is Chinese Cheap or Counterfeit products. In the 70's we had lawsuit Japanese guitars that were utter garbage. I don't think you people are reading my posts at all, if you did you wouldn't have those questions. But the Chibson l saw in LA in 2019 were Outstanding copies in every way. Nothing like the Jap Crap you could but in the 70's. So the answer is yes. I could not tell the new clones from the real thing. And every Gibson l played at Guitar Center was garbage. It's not l don't, and l don't, because l am not a prospective buyer for either product. I love my custom Parkers and Switch guitars that were made for me. And you won't be seeing any Chinese clones of those because there is no market for them. So Gibson and Fender are on thier own here. I am not going to fight for them, win or lose. The price is irrelevant as the buyers of those instruments decide that. And the price is pretty low, so offhand l would say Gibson and Fender have a problem.
 

Sheff37

Member
Next and you people forget. Gibson and Fender are giant global conglomerates. They bought out everyone and forced the Little Guys out of the market. Fender bought out Parker, etc. Nobody out there is who they used to be. There are no Leo Fenders working in a hot workshop coming up with new ideas and innovations. The current musical instrument market will not support that. There isn't any money in music anymore. Not a one of you here is going to be in the next KISS or be the next Gene Simmons. Music was big money back in the day. There were rich kids that had money and bought Gibson guitars and Marshall amps that got in bands for that reason alone. Most couldn't even play. But because they had Gibsons and Marshalls they got the gig. I never got in those bands, all rock bands of course. I got with Johnny Bush, Ray Price and all those other uncool old guys who didn't care what l played. But the Gibson Marshall illusion doesn't work anymore. Because the money that was once there is not there anymore. If you asked me "Should l buy a Chibson just for looks?" I would say the same thing to you l would have said about the Ibeenhad your thinking of buying in 1975. I would play it and if it played great l would say that. The last Chibson l played had a perfect neck. The rest is 10%. I have no love for Gibson or Fender anymore. And back then mid 70's Gibsons were at their lowest. The Jap Crap was just that and in 1975 my advice was don't throw your money away, find a used Gibson in the papers. Today my reply would be, this thing has a really good neck. This plays better than anything in Guitar Center right now. Go there first, then come back to this, and buy the best guitar you can afford.
 
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