Cheating?

[mikeh]

I think we may be talking more than one level.

I agree with JohnnyFever, that a good musician who has mastered his instrument (do we ever really master our instruments) should be able to hit the groove in a limited number of trys - if he can't he should not be in the studio. However, that primarily would apply to a session player or a member of a band who is paying for studio time.

As a paid session player (which I don't do as much as I use to - there's always someone better who can come along and take the gig) I know it is my job to hit it quickly, since the clock is ticking. In fact I have actually been replaced on a couple of sessions because I could not make it happen fast enough - and I've also had parts that I recorded replaced after I left because it was not "good enough").

As a producer, it is my job to make the session happen while working within some type of budget and if a player is not getting it done, I have to talk to the client and make a hard call (I have asked to get different players in)

As an engineer, I'll do whatever I'm asked, but if I think someone is not getting it done, I will try to find a polite way to suggest something different (including an edit or a cut & paste)

As a home recorder, I'm free to do whatever I want - if that includes what KeithCF suggested, so be it (although on a personal level I would prefer to play the part - that is why I've spent close to 40 years improving my drumming chops).

I agree with JohnnyFever that most major sessions are not done on the fly - the producer (and the label) will insist on plenty of pre-production to limit the costs of studio time.

I suspect that the projects Fairview is mentioning are indeed more along the lines of pre-production. It is not uncommon for name artists to go into a less costly studio where they can work through some ideas - however, the clock is still ticking and even then the artists have to know when to stop trying and/or when to punch in or edit.

As was stated, if you want the best sounding recording, you will use whatever you can (musical skill, technical skill, computer skill). However, as a musician, we should all strive to be good enough to get the groove on tape without "cheating" (but as I've indicated, I've had a couple of producers who did not think I was good enough - thankfully most thought I was).

 

[Farview]

I suspect that the projects Fairview is mentioning are indeed more along the lines of pre-production. It is not uncommon for name artists to go into a less costly studio where they can work through some ideas - however, the clock is still ticking and even then the artists have to know when to stop trying and/or when to punch in or edit.

The specific story that I told was not pre production. Those tracks made it to the album, as they were meant to. There would be no point to flying the drummer out to do pre production, then have to fly him back out again once he has had a chance to practice.

For whatever reason, I get a lot of projects where musicians are just getting together to see what happens. There is a time limit because most of these guys are showing up as they are in town in the middle of a tour. This is mostly 'musician music' and doesn't sell a lot of records, but the guys who are doing this are monsters.

When I had Tac-Head here, the drummer would lay down a groove, then the producer would come up with a different idea for the hi hat, we would just layer that on. Then there was a tom part that was layered over that.
This was being created right there as we were recording it. That is the way that band works. All of these guys can play.

 

[mikeh]

Fairview:

It sound like you are working on some interesting projects with some A list players. As you indicate, it can be more cost effective to punch in & edit, in particular if you are recording people like Morgenstein, who I suspect must get double or triple scale.

Since I came up in the 60's and have seen the studio scene change from the the "record the album" in 2 days" attitude of the 60's (back when the whole band actually recorded at the same time) thru the "record the album in 2 years" attitude of the 80's - and have seen my share of the "edit every note" attitude of the last decade - I have observed the pros & cons of each method (from both sides of the glass).

While I agree that the demand for perfect sounding recordings does dictate edits, pitch corrections, etc. etc. - I suspect we can all agree that there is something special and extremely satisfying (for musicians, producers and engineers) to have a group of musician's lay down a great groove when the red light goes on and then sit in the control room an all agree "that's a take"!!

 

[Farview]

That would be cool. I remember having to do that myself when I had no budget and computers were something that only existed in the Bat Cave.
I do have projects that come in with a well rehearsed band that doesn't require editing, it just doesn't seem to be the norm.
I have a friend and client who is a Yngwie-type guitar player. When we are recording his solos, sometimes he will play it over the neck. The fact that he can play all these super-fast arpegios overhanded is pretty incredible but, no one listening to the CD will ever know that he played it that way. Does it make the solo more kick ass that he did that? If you were watching him, maybe. Does anyone listening to the CD care? No.
You get payed the same amount of money no matter how you do it. You get paid for getting it done, how it gets done is of little importance.